$1250 for a $120k Service - Mechanic's Reply

Don't want to belabor this too long, but after studying the original thread, I went back to my mechanic and questioned the valve adjustment at the 120k service. Below is his reply, and it certainly sounds legit to a non-mechanic like me, but I'd certainly appreciate any any input from those more knowledgable.

>If you will check your invoice from me for your 60K service, you'll see the $151 charge for checking the valve clearance (we just charged you for Remove & Replace Valve cover gaskets, trying to get you as a customer (still be the same price) You had brought that up to me as in All Data the information system that we were using at the time (We Call it NO DATA, that's why I've changed to Mitchell Data) It didn't show a valve adjust until 120K. Mitchell shows inspecting valve clearance at 60K & 120K.

You were still under a warranty at that time and to keep it valid we checked the clearance and all were within specs. I'm pretty sure I told you that they almost never needed an adjustment that low a mileage. At 120K there will more than likely be a few out of specs. The allowable clearance from Toyota is Intake .006" to .010" (ideal .008") Exhaust .011" to .015" (ideal .013") a difference of .004 of an inch (.006" if you count being right on hi or low ). If it's anywhere in those limits it's considered OK. Usually it's will be the Exhaust Valves that will be off the most. They get too tight, which doesn't make any noise (not enough clearance).

In extreme cases the valve won't close tight enough at higher speeds (Freeway) to seal the cylinder (the result is a burnt valve). Usually it will run noticeably rough at idle & surge at cruising speeds long before that happens. You are probably OK at this point, most Toyota's we see don't have any real problems until around 150K to 200K depending on how it's driven & cared for. At that point it's generally a valve job to fix the problem, but with that many miles on the engine doing a valve job will cause the rings to fail within a few months a lot of the time, so might as well rebuild/replace the engine (or sell it, which is what most people do). You drive the truck fairly easy, so waiting till 150K or even more, may not cause any issues. I've seen them go to 200K+ with needing an adjustment if they're driven easy and the oil is changed regularly.

You can always decline the Accusal adjustment if you want, would be a good idea to know where they are at and would come out about $50 than it did in May 2010 when we did the 60K $400-$410 (just guessing a slight increase in the parts cost over last 3 years). If you'd like I can get you an exact price for everything w/o the adjustment. That varies too much depending on how many shims.<

 

The owners manual doesn't say anything about this for the 120k mile service does it? Isn't this part of a 1st gen service?

 

I was going to suggest to you to keep everything in one thread. It's going to make everything cluttered. Plus not everyone may have no read your thread may not understand this reply, like someone who just got registered. In your original thread you can change the title of the thread that there was a reply etc. Just some food for thought.

 

i would pay $1,250 for a $120,000 service. seems pretty profitable to me.

 

Two threads with the same incorrect tiles..... just an FYI.

 

Wow, an abundance o' rookie moves. My apologies. Any way to correct this and the multiple thread issue, or just learn from my mistakes and move on?

 

pm a mod , they can merge the threads

 

Considering how much of a PITA it is to do a valve adjustment on a bucket and shim setup I'm not surprised at the price. However I'll admit I've never looked at the manual to see if it's even a suggested service. And did they find any out of spec? I would be surprised if they were. Of course when mine went in at 123k with a blown head gasket (fortunately under warranty as I had just bought it) they did mention they had checked all the valve clearances while they were in there and it all was fine, no adjustment needed. So maybe it is in the manual.

 

there are no shims they change the buckets when an adjustment is needed or swap them around

 

Hi all.


The schedule is in your owners manual supplement.


The scheduled check for valve clearance is done audibly only - no actual check with feeler gauges is scheduled. Of course feeler gauges are used once the audible check determines adjustment is necessary.


The audible inspection is scheduled to be done every maintenance service. This is done initially at 24 months or 32,000 km whichever comes first. Then 36 mo. / 48,000, 48 mo. / 64,000, etc.


Cheers
Ray.

 

Can't say I have ever heard of an "audible inspection" isn't that pretty subjective? I wouldn't think it to be of much value compared to using feeler gauges and getting actual numbers.

 

Can't hear a tight valve.

 

I think that Toyota, like Honda, assumes that that the intake lash adjustment loosens at the same rate that the exhaust valves tighten. Not very accurate IMO

 

FYI my phone is faster than your ISP

 

To first bold, I laughed. I used Mitchell for 2 years. Every time I needed information on something that was not a "standard" vehicle, I found more info on Google. I am with AllData, and EVERYTHING I have looked for, I have found there.

The second bold I disagree with. What causes valves to not seat at higher RPMs on the Toyota are the valve springs, not the valves, or the shims. Valves not sealing properly at higher RPMs will show as a gradual power loss under higher RPMs, and is easy to verify with a vacuum gauge on the intake.

Depends on the engine. They use shims on top of the buckets for the 2.7 and 3.4 liter engines. I have done many valve jobs on these, as well as my own truck. I have worked on the 2.7 and 3.4 as well as the 4.0 engines. But yes, the OPs truck does use the bucket.

Can't do an audible test for clearance that is too low. The ONLY way to properly check is to remove the valve cover(s) and measure.

 

^BamaToy has spoken

 

The theory of shimmed valve adjustment is everything wares at the same rate so done properly the adjustment should last the life time of the valve. Does this all ways work? Mostly. The design is not new been around for at least 65 years it was developed for high reving engines to reduce valve train weight. The adjustment is labor intensive and not for some one that has never done it before. With high mileage I would not only listen to the valve noise but do a compression check if any cylinders were lower than the rest chances are the valve is too tight an adjustment is cheaper than a valve job.

 

Adjustments are cheaper for sure! You are right there. The biggest mistake a tech makes when doing the shim measuring and adjustment is engine temp. There are two different clearance number for hot and cold engines. It depends on what temp the engine is. Here is where the trick lays: If you are in Arizona, and you haven't started the engine in a day, most techs consider that a cold engine, and use the cold specs. Then they end up with valves that are too tight when the engine gets nice and warm. End result is lack of power when the engine is hot. I never do the cold adjustment. There is too much variation is what can or can't be considered cold. I always run the engine until it is at operating temp and use the hot engine measurements. Besides, who cares if the shim adjustment is perfect with the engine cold? I mean that engine is cold for what, 5 minutes? The rest of the time the engine is hot. So you should make adjustments based on that.

 

So Bill would you say this is a necessary service, at 120k, unless customer complains of issue that you can relate to a possible valve adjustment? I wouldn't dream of adjusting valves on a 4.0 at 120k.