Military drinking age???

Look brother, let me give you a personal example. I joined the Navy at 18 when all of my friends went to college. i went on my first deployment and was a nobody. By the time i was 20 i had been on two deployments (one to Iraq) and was a squad leader in charge of 14 junior personnel while l of my friends are still in school with no real life knowledge / experience. Now at 23 i am in charge of 23 people while my friends have just gotten out for school and are now junior personnel in there companies. So if you wanted to know how we gain maturity earlier than a college student there it is. We are placed in a leadership role at a much earlier age then any college student and responsibility for our actions weigh with much greater consequence then that of a college student.

 

so have some drinks... i'm all for it


but there are just as many people out there that have their own hard life stories that make drinking under 21 seem just as trivial...

 

Ok, im not giving you a "hard luck story" you asked why a 19 year old serviceman is more mature in life than a non-serviceman and i gave you an answer to your question. We are given responcibility earlier and grater then that of a college student.

 

The military does not discriminate based on age, it discriminates based on rank. If you are an enlisted man under 21, you should be allowed to participate in enlisted man base activities that includes drinking alcohol at the EM club. Being a NCO, or an officer, you probably are over 21, so drinking is the standard at the NCO and Officers clubs. Off base, local laws are what matters.

 

Not all are tho. You are a moto guy with some aspirations...I've processed a few folks between 19-25 who wouldn't have made it very far at all if they went to real college and had to manage their own lives, insted of having the military take care of them.

Blanket stating that underage service members are more mature isn't taking the whole story into account- cause there are guys/gals that ARE....and there are plenty that AREN'T. And allowing the ones who are not responsible to drink younger than their counterparts doesn't make sense. Lower the age for everyone makes sense- but not just for the military because "they are more mature"

 

I like the idea of our servicemen being able to drink at 19 , but on base. There isnt any reason, it's hard to put it to a justification. Like the saying "to whom much is given , much is expected", but in this case much is expected, so give them something.

 

Sorry to offend you SS but that is my opinion. And I do respect and appreciate all service men and women.

SOME but definitely not all, service men and women do it strictly for the money. The topic of this thread is asking if they should receive special treatment over the rest of America and I was explaining why they shouldn't (IMO).

Yes, I guess I do segregate my level of respect based on reason for joining. As stated, I respect all service men and women but those who join for the desire to fight for our country receive more in my book.
Those who hate it and want out but can't get out and only joined thinking they can make a good buck don't get the same level of respect.

Hell, I have one friend who married his friend just so they could receive more money while he was deployed.

 

the issue is with your wording... making it sound like all servicemen have more responsibility and maturity than everyone their age


do servicemen and women have a lot of responsibility at a young age - yes
do they carry a lot of burdens - yes
does it matter if the get drunk on a free night while they defending our country - fuck no

are they the only ones with a lot of shit on their plates at a young age - no
are they the only ones that have to grow up way too fast - no
are they only ones where whether having a couple beers at the end of a shitty day is the last thing they are worrying about - FUCK NO





like i said before... let them drink underage just like everyone else does that wants to... do i think its fucked up that this country will send someone to die but still doesn't think they can handle a couple drinks - YES

but changing the law just for the military personnel is just as fucked up









i can't really put this any simpler so until this debate takes a new direction i'm outty

 

I will disagree whole heartedly. I see it all the time. I can't go a week without seeing the direct result of 19 year old servicemembers that lacks maturity when it comes to alcohol. However you cannot limit it to just lower enlisted. Alcohol abuse is rampant in the military.

Maturity comes from responsibility, but stupidity comes from excessive use of alchohol. It doesn't matter the age a dirt bag is, a dirt bag crosses age barriers. So lower it to 18 sure why not. But make the standards for misconduct exteremely harsh and make it equal all across the board. Servicemember 24/7. At all times conduct oneself as a professional. Any negative incident involving alcohol should be direct chapter and loss of all benefits REGARDLESS OF RANK.

 

I just separated from active duty airforce and I would go with lower it to 20. the majority of the kids who ive seen join are just as/if not more immature than anyone Ive seen in my life.

the ammount of DUIs and dumb shit that went on in the dorms would only intensify if it was lowered.

 

Yea dud122 is right, this isn't getting us anywhere. No cops around I'd give any service personnel 19 or older a beer of mine, assuming they demonstrate the ability to handle themself. I'm gonna step out too.

 

Oh and another thing about discrimination. If you haven't been in the military I dont want to hear anything about the idea of lowering the drinking age for military being discrimintaion to those who are not.

First of all people who serve in the military waived several of their rights joing the military. We no longer have several freedoms, which you currently enjoy. Yes we did knowingly do so. So go ahead and claim discrimintation, and we will play that game.

 

Originally Posted by qballenko
I will disagree whole heartedly. I see it all the time. I can't go a week without seeing the direct result of 19 year old servicemembers that lacks maturity when it comes to alcohol. However you cannot limit it to just lower enlisted. Alcohol abuse is rampant in the military.

Yes and that is why I put it in my original statement. However I will say that there is a problem that comes mostly from initial enlistment soldiers, in initial training. 42 soldiers from one platoon having to be treated for the same std; a result of alcohol.

I think it should go to 19. That way a person is in their respective branch for at least a year so they can learn responsibilty and self-discipline.

 

My freshman year in college I had a psychology class where the professor demonstrated that your brain is still developing and making receptor connections at age 21; in fact it's not until 22-23 that your brain is considered "fully developed" and has made all the connections. Until that point, every time you get get pissed out your mind you're destroying those receptors that otherwise would have "connected".

As for the correlation between military service and drinking age I think that it would cost / be more trouble than it's worth to lower the age JUST for the military. We've all heard the "old enough to die for our country - old enough to drink" arguments and as valid a statement as that is, it just wouldn't make sense in the long run. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when you're deployed you can't even drink anyway, right? Maturity is a vague term, I'm only 21 and I know for a fact that I'll be poisoning the hell out of myself for years to come (hopefully in moderation) and have been since I was... hmm... 16 or so. Do I consider myself "mature"? Absolutely. Does that mean I won't do stupid shit that I'll partly blame on alcohol from time to time? Hell no... and as for a side note, the law office I'm currently interning at just received a client that received a DUI, Resisiting Arrest, and Indecent Exposure charges this weekend. He is 64.

 

If you won't let them drink under 21, you KNOW that they will smoke weed instead, and then get into trouble with that drug testing program.

 

Ok, I can sort of see why 21 is the req drinking age. Explain why the Germans make Kids Beer aka Kinder Bier? Explain why the Japanese and Koreans drink at 19? I'm not the one to judge, but it seems that average person in those countries have higher IQs than us. Not callin us dum, we just aint smart lik dem pepoles. LOL

 

It seems like most of the examples of service members being provided by civilians are pre-boot/any sort of real military experience. The guy at the beach in his big black and gold ARMY shirt that the recruiter gave him does not count. The year 3/4 ROTC cadet that still wears a funny made up rank you can't buy at clothing and sales does not count.

In the real operational Army I've seen 22 year olds responsible for millions of dollars in equipment and soldiers not even old enough to buy booze responsible for the lives and well-being of their subordinates. Someone with a high school diploma is expected to be a compitent ambassidor to the citizens of a foreign nation. Before a soldier hits 30 they can be responsible for hundreds of people, tens-of-millions of dollars of gov't equipment, massive coordination of personnel and logistics, as well as their own personal lives, wives, children, college, and personal health.

Punishment goes both ways in the military, they are still absolutely subject to civilian law while also being punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Civilian side an employee with a DUI or jail time could expect to lose their job. The Army just makes them pay for it twice.

Most of the legal issus I've seen in my career have been related to underage drinking and the resulting actions taken to not get caught. They can't drink in the barracks so they go out, they can't get back through the gate so they stay at some skanks house and get stranded, they can't call their supervisor for a ride so they try to take a cab and ditch without paying the fare or worse DUI. A lot of trivial shit resulting from wanting to drink but when it comes down to it personnel actions really aren't any crazier than could be expected from a bunch of guys unwinding from a stressful job. Soldiers generally don't fall off balconies or die from other stupid alcohol related incidents, like their college age counterparts (http://compelledtoact.com/Tragic_listing/Main_listing_victims.htm) It's usually driving related. The military takes huge steps to prevent soldiers from acting irresponsibly while drinking, how many civilian jobs do that?

Yes, I understand why an outsider looking in wouldn't understand why a bunch of hyped up testostone fueled reckless killing machines shouldn't be pumped full of booze but having actually served I don't believe there is a more responsible or controlled environment to allow drinking below the legal limit.

American culture certainly isn't in any position to lower the legal age to include high school seniors. Some counties have raised the minimum tobacco age to 19 to proclude high school seniors from buying cigarettes in an effort to keep tobacco products out of the schools. Something similar could be done for alcohol civ side.

 

With you brother!

 

And this demonstrates the vastly more mature and competent decision making of todays underage military members how??

 

They won't dwi