Ambiguous' terrible customer service

First off I will say Burt's retro-fitted headlights look damn good, and almost OEM. I did not have any services done by him, I just dealt with the customer service portion of it, and not the craftsmanship of his work. With that being said I am not sure how this man is making money with terrible customer service like this. I will list what happened in chronological order, I have proof of all the events, emails, texts, and PMs from all parties involved.

January 10, 2014
Made a for sale thread for 2012 OEM headlights for $450 shipped, here it is. The headlights were in immaculate condition having coming from a 2013 with just a few miles on them.

January 11, 2014
Member nice taco (we will call him Jason from here on in) says he wants to buy the headlights and sends me X amount of dollars for said headlights with special shipping instructions. To make a semi-long story short he had a headlight get damaged and wanted Burt's retro-fitting services for a set of new headlights for his truck.

January 14, 2014
Headlights were shipped to Burt and insured for $500, knowing Jason was in a time crunch I had them sent 2 day FedEx, which cost more money but I was trying to help out someone who needed it.

January 16, 2014
Headlights were delivered, and signed for upon delivery.


February 7, 2014
I get a phone call from Jason telling me we have a major issue, apparently the person whom I had ship the headlights did a bad job of packaging them and were 'severely damaged'. Burt sent me pics via text which are irrelevant at this point, so me being the nice guy I am decide to call Burt to get this situation fixed.

After talking to Jason for 20 minutes or so I explain to him it will get situated, and if the shipper messed up the packaging I will bite the bullet. I give Burt a call after he texts me pictures and ask him why he didn't verify the lights were in good condition when he received them, and if they were damaged why didn't he refuse to accept them? All he said was "yeah that was my bad" and I told him he should be liable for the condition of the headlights when he gets them, I also told him to call Jason and tell him he will fix it and he says he won't do it.

I give Jason a call back and ask what he wants to do, and tell him Burt won't take responsibility for the condition of the headlights, even though they were insured for $500 and 2 day FedEx shipped (both costs were out of my pocket), and were not even looked at for 3 weeks only then to be opened up by Burt and discovered they were damaged.

February 7, 2014
Refunded the full amount for the headlights Jason sent me, called Burt and told him to attempt to make a claim with FedEx anyway just to see what happens. I get a text response "Ok they'll pick it up and investigate", "They make a decision and return it to me".

February 11, 2014
Sent a text to Burt asking if FedEx ever gave him an answer for the headlights, "Nothing yet. I think I'll get them back today though".

February 24, 2014
Sent a text to Burt asking if there was an ETA on the headlights, I get a response "I got word from FexEx that they denied the claim finally after calling a few times", I guess that wasn't information I needed unless I asked. Another response, "I need to pick up from their facility as they won't drop off, beats me why", "So I'll have them tonight", "Ship back in AM tomorrow".

February 27, 2014
Burt sends me a text with tracking info for the headlights, and asks for my address and says they (FedEx I guess?) ended up shipping them back.

March 4, 2014 (today)
I check status of delivery for the headlights, it says delivered to Utah when my address clearly says Houston, I shoot him a text and ask why they are in Utah, he sends me a text back claiming he will make a phone call to see what happened. A few minutes later he sends me the original tracking number if I want to follow up, which IMO, I should not have to do.

Other important / relevant info:
Burt said he would buy the headlights off me if I wanted. He paid to have them shipped to me, or Utah I guess idk. The person whom I had ship the lights works for FedEx and that's all he does all day long is ship items from his corporate account. They were wrapped in bubble wrap in 1 box, with Styrofoam peanuts. I told Jason and Burt if it was the shipper's fault whatsoever, I would eat the cost and just take the headlights back no questions asked, but there was no way to tell since Burt had the lights in his possession for 3 weeks without even looking at them. I did tell Burt to ship the LED blinkers I bought from him in the same packaging as the headlights to save on shipping costs, which did not end up happening.

Closing statement; IMO, I think he damaged them on accident after having them a week or 2, and didn't want to bite the cost for them so he put it off until he absolutely had to give Jason an answer. He knew he was screwed b/c he couldn't make a claim with FedEx after 3 weeks of them being in his possession. So as of right now, I am out a set of headlights and the money I sent back to Jason for them with no ETA for headlights in sight. I will call FedEx later today or early in the morning to find out if there is anything I can do.

 

Jesus

This is why I hate selling things online, at any point something can happen and screw you out of product and money.

I am shipping my first customer headlight retro out tomorrow, we are insuring them for $900 including the stage 4 projector kit, brand new headlights and my labor time into the lights. I would not want I, nor my customer getting screwed out of money or product as time and money have been spent.

 

That really sucks that you ended up eating all of that. I think that is part of the risk when dealing with people and not businesses. It doesn't make it okay, just happens. Honestly, not sure how a bubble wrapped headlight gets "severely Damaged" in two days. I deal with shipping quite a bit, if your friend ships small package on a regular basis he would know how to wrap the headlight. With that being said there seems to be two scenarios here.

1)Honesty
If it really did get damaged in shipping: I would say making a claim with Fedex right away with would have probably solved this issue. At that point you would "technically" be responsible, but that is why you insured the package from the get go. An immediate claim with Fedex would have been handled without issue, because you properly insured the package.

Once burt received the package it becomes his responsibility. It is his fault he didn't check the package immediately upon receipt. He knew what was in it, he knew the value, he chose not to double check it's contents.

Because burt received the package as "good condition" default response when someone signs for something. There is no way to prove that it was your packaging and not something that happened from when the package arrived at burt's facility to when burt opened the package. That by default should put the full burden on burt. He is 100% responsible for those lights because he received them from Fedex. Not opening the box is his fault and the shipper is no longer responsible.


2) Dishonesty
Maybe burt needed a core, accidentally broke them, or any other situation in which he would benefit from those headlights becoming "severely damaged in shipping" and pushing the responsibility onto you knowing you have no recourse.



Either way given your story you are not responsible. If this was a dispute between businesses this would be 100% Burt's issue. I don't know what recourse you have being person to person.

When my company receives product we inspect it thoroughly. We have to because if we sign for it, to then later find an issue we are almost always responsible. Of course there are some scenarios where we have recourse after the fact, but not many and definitely not weeks later.



------
My personal experience with Burt:


I am not really surprised by this. I follow the ambiguous thread and there was a while where burt literally disappeared. At one point I had put a $500 deposit down to get some lights from him. I had waited for a month or so when I realized no one was getting their lights. I know he does great work, but there isn't a chance that it should take that long. I was a little tight on cash so I messaged Burt and he refunded me my deposit (thank goodness). At that point I was going to wait until he was caught up, and order a set of lights once there was a shorter lead time. I followed the thread for over a year and I think I have seen only a couple of people post that they actually got their lights. One of his customers (Buzzardsgottaeat) had waited over a year for a retrofit. I think that is downright insane!

I have no doubt on the quality of his product, but the lead time is enough to scare me away.

 

for ambiguous response.

 

I can't speak on the shipping damages, and how this was handled with three seperate parties involved but I have a set of Burt's retros...while I did wait and was a bit nervous considering I paid in full upfront I eventually got my lights and the workmanship is phenomenal.

Had an issue a year later and he sent me some headlight glue at no cost and took the time to text me specific directions on how to rectify my situation.

Dealing with insurance claims on shipments is no fun regardless, especially in a three ring circus like you guys had going on. if the box wasn't physically/visibly damaged its common for people to accept shipments. I ship a ton of stuff for work, and receive a ton. What was the damage to the lights? Was he the one that signed for them? I know when I sent them it was to his family business or something like that

 

OP, I must say you keep a GREAT track of things.
All the way from January to NOW. (I can barely remember wtf happened yesterday lol)

Honestly IMHO, Although Burt is a BUSY man, but there is no way on earth you do not have the time to open a simple package over 3 weeks. He have done PLENTY of retrofit on TW, as a person selling a service. He should know better on how to take care of customer / business.

Leaving a package siting in a corner for 3 weeks, THEN you go tell the other guy that they are damaged, that is some shady stuff right there man. Besides the guy does enough retrofit, to be able to take this entirely on himself as a responsibility of a service he provides.

Not trying to step on anyone, but Burt does have some communication problems in the past. I have seen it on his retrofit thread.
Again i am just sharing my .02 cent

 

March 5, 2014 (today)
After a 30 minute talk with FedEx it turns out Burt attempted to send the lights back to me (to the wrong address) and when the driver could not make a delivery, they (FedEx) attempted to call Burt (the only phone number they had) multiple times over a 2 day period, according to the FedEx rep, and he didn't answer so they sent the headlights to their lost and found facility in Utah. The rep told me they would send the headlights to whatever address I wanted as long as they had the $32 to ship it, I said I've been waiting on these for weeks, go ahead and charge my card and get them to me. Not sure where the ball got dropped on his end, I gave him my personal mailing address and he texted me saying he "returned to shipper" which was not the address FedEx tried to make the delivery to so I'm out another $32 but they told me I would have the lights in 2 days, we will see.

 

I'm kind of interested in seeing what damage has been done to your lights.

 

And further down the rabbit hole we go!


You must have taken the red pill.

 

This whole situation sucks, OP.
my experience with Burt has been nothing but positive. Ive met him a couple of times and he installed my headlights himself. He's been very patient with questions and concerns of mine over the past year. IMO, he isnt a dishonest person. He is, although, extremely busy with his day job, so i understand the lack of communication.
i hope everything gets squared away and people dont end up getting screwed.
i also had my lights shipped directly to Burt from Camelback, FXR's shipped direct from TRS and he accepted and did the work properly with no problems.

 

March 7, 2014 (today)FedEx came by and dropped the headlights off today.

Edited out the first pic, it had my mailing address on it, the pics are large but TW will resize them automatically when the page fully loads.

Here is the box:

Opened the box, packaged nicely


Headlights touching, I guess this is why he paid to have them shipped instead of me paying


Both headlights look to be in decent shape, one has some scuffs on the bottom of it but no big deal to me, I'm just glad I have them in my possession.








So 2 months later, $70 out of my pocket and 3 pissed off people I finally get my headlights back and they still are in good shape, not sure what the fuss was about to begin with honestly.

Regards.

 

Sooooooo where are the "severely damaged" headlights?

 

Jason did tell me he was pretty particular about the condition of the headlights he wanted, that's why he wanted mine to begin with b/c they were in 'new' condition when I shipped them. When Burt texted Jason the damage of the driver's side headlight that's when this whole situation started. But to answer your question,

 

Those seem to be in Like New condition to me? Any damage on the back or anything?

 

I looked them over pretty good, they look like they did when I shipped them other than the scuffing on the driver's side one.

 

Seems like a large waste of time and money on your end. I have no experience with Burt but seems like he just didnt want to deal with them. Just a shitty situation.

 

Money, not really. Time, yes. I was just trying to help out someone who needed a set of headlights. If Burt would have just opened the box and refused them to begin with OR taking responsibility for them being damaged this all would have been avoided. I know the man has a full time job and does this on the side but if I messed up in any way I would have taken the blame and it would be done with which is what I would expect from a 'respected' member.

 

That's it?

 

The guy never even stopped by this thread to give his side of the explanation.
Burt that i am addressing to.