Long Travel BS Thread

And there you'd be wrong, those are commercially licensed frequencies, and are owned and used by paying companies and or persons, and FCC CFR 47 part 15 applies to EVERY radio device in the U.S.

and furthermore:
The Private Land Mobile Radio Service (47CFR90, or Part 90 of the FCC Rules) was established in the US in 1927 [3] to permit commercial and public safety uses of two-way radio by commercial entities and non-Federal government agencies. Similar allocations are available in other countries. The available frequencies in the US have traditionally been separated into two pools. One is for industrial and business users, including some special categories such as petroleum, manufacturing and forestry, the other is for public safety.[4] including medical, police, fire and others. The industrial and business frequencies, sometimes also known as "business band radio" and the eligibility requirements are listed in 47CFR90.35.[5] Frequencies are licensed on a non-exclusive basis, although fixed stations and mobiles operating in a defined area are issued licenses only following frequency coordination [6] to assure equitable sharing of bandwidth. Anyone conducting commercial business or a number of other activities is eligible for a license.


Other general-purpose two-way radio services with simplified licensing requirements have also been established over the years in the US including GMRS and citizen's band, the latter now being licensed by rule, so that users don't need individual licenses. FRS and MURS are similar pools of frequencies that do not require individual licenses in the USA.

I'm just informing so as folks understand there is a risk, and yes the FCC has been showing up in SoCal as of late.

 

Interesting. I am now informed.

However I still think that it is very unlikely that the FCC is going to start using the BLM to crack down on guys in the desert talking to each other. There are a ton of guys on real business band radios communicating all the time that i doubt have licenses. Even PCI doesn't mention that when they set you up with a race/chase kit.

If that was the case we would have seen/heard about issues at all the recent events in SoCal.

Edit:

Let me ask this: Since i know there are plenty of business band users that use handhelds all over the country (construction sites, concerts, etc), including my self that don't have licenses. Can I assume that the license fees for the frequencies used are included in the purchase price of the hardware? So you are licensing the frequencies per device not per user?

but with HAM you need to have a call sign for legal operation so you pay for your personal HAM license.

So you are saying that the cap mod that brings the HAM radio into the business band is illegal because the end user didn't pay for the license to use the new frequencies at the initial purchase?

 

Nope, the FCC has their own enforcement folks, and a very good friend of mine from College works for said team in the SoCal area. Any license is for using a frequency or group of allocations per the FCC band plan not for the radio(s).

And no, what i'm saying is the radio being MARS moded is not type accepted per FCC CFR 47 part 15, unless you have a MARS license and or are an FCC Commercial repair technician license. Its not illegal to own or sell the device just operate it where its not type tested for.

As far as the race radio or rugged radio folks, again its not illegal to own or sell the devices, just operate them with out proper licensing, and of course they wont be upfront unless asked about licensing its how they make their living.

All it takes is a rash of complaints from direct frequency owner(s) or adjacent frequency the FCC starts sniffing around.

 

Jim I'll give you an example, say a racing team in the US that was full FCC rights to a frequency, they by FCC rules can hand out as many radios per the license holders agreement for team members and persons they deem as help/members. another thing to remember is that most are regional allowances and not all 50 states. VHF/UHF has a limited range under normal conditions.

 

Ok. I understand the cap mod/operation thing and I hope everyone that owns, mods, operates a modded radio understands the potential risk. That makes sense.

What I don't properly understand is there are thousands of hand held radios in use every day on the business band that are not directly issued/licensed to one particular person. You get to site and grab a radio, you don't grab the same one every day/site. How is the FCC not taking advantage of this and fining the crap out of the Staples Center/Honda Center/construction site/etc every day for this? Same thing with cabs/police/emergency vehicles that switch drivers per shift/day. There must be a blanket license that is issued for the hardware because keeping track of the user/operator is a paperwork nightmare.
Edit:

Also on that same thought, why isnt the FCC swarming all the racing events and fining everyone that is using a race radio?

Edit:
most of the teams around here aren't sponsored enough to buy licenses for their entire team of volunteers.

Thats where I am getting my "business band has different rules" idea.

Thanks for all the info so far.

 

oh no worries, and again im only informing as it would suck if something happened and radio gear and vehicle were taken low power is your friend.

They aren't due to number of complaints, they work off of a complaint system and not as a pure lets go see whats going on here system.

I understand about the rampant abundance of radios being used, lets take a stadium or sports center that have say 50 radios for workers and what not.
If a license was issued for that frequency or frequencies they often break that up into a few companies/entities and have the radios programmed with a PL tone, the radio and or repeater uses a transmit and receive tone with the radios main carrier that only turns on the paired radio(s) and or repeater so it's like a secondary key for the frequency.

So yes with a non PL set up receiver you would hear alot of chatter so to speak.

Simply put, the spectrum of safe and usable frequencies for the public and or commercial use is zip "0" right now, and the FCC is on a revenue binge so the mighty Dollar will eventually win.

 

There is usually a base station/HQ/security station that monitors all traffic at the venues. That secondary key makes sense in that situation.

All other situations seems like they fall into the "lack of complaints" category. If you are out in the middle of the desert there isn't going to be a lot of people to piss off per frequency.

However if you decide to mess around in a Downtown area you are probably going to stomp over someone important and get noticed.

So for what we do, its technically illegal but we are unlikely to get noticed if we are operating reasonably. If we start being children and stomping on the wrong frequency then we deserve what may come next.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I appreciate that you didn't come in like most HAMtards and just throw rules and codes around.

 

Not a problem, as a holder of a Amateur as well as a Commercial license I understand that most of the public isn't informed and or is being taken advantage of by resellers who know its wrong but profit from it anyway and let the public take the hit.

A long term goal of mine was/is to acquire a UHF business repeater and have it set up for us Desert SoCal folks to use. Tall order so to speak.

 

Yeah the business end is where you tend to get in trouble for. My dad was a corporate negotiator for Sprint and would buy bandwidth in certain frequency ranges and worked with the FCC daily. People would be surprised on how much a frequency is worth if its in the right bandwidth. My dad made old farmers millionaires by buying their frequency rights for Sprint. These guys bought that stuff back in the day now everyone wants it for 4g and other things in telecommunications

 

Absolutely Alex, currently the Oil and Gas industry are the gobblers of VHF/UHF bandwidth.

 

Where is the time machine when you need it?

 

They use them for SCADA systems don't they? I know they have microwave dishes next to all the valves and such. I was told by my grandpa that all the SCADA stuff is RF controlled

 

While I have you radio guru's about, would this be a good buy for playing/prerunning/chasing?

 

do you need UHF?

otherwise the Kenwood TM-281A is a great lil radio that is cheap and rugged, not alot of bells and whistles.

 

indeed, its changing though, its going to a much higher frequency.

 

I'm not sure what that means

But it use to be in a TT so it's pre-programmed with weatherman, bitd and some other stuff. Pretty good price.

 

Well if it was in a TT then it must be exactly what you need lol

 

Hahaha. I just thought if double check before purchasing.

 

Any reason why the Kenwood, Icom, Rugged Radios won't fit your needs?

 

It is a kenwood my friend.