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Seattle Passes Ordinance For $15 Minimum Wage

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Forster46, Jun 2, 2014.

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  1. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:17 PM
    #141
    jandrews

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    $15 x 40 = $600 per full time week.
    $600 x 52 = $31200 annual gross.

    This means if two minimum wage earners get married after this goes into effect, the household is earning $62400 gross. That is well above the median income here in the US of high-40thousands.

    I don't know how they expect this to work. The minimum wage is a price floor on labor. Given that businesses have finite dollars to spend on labor, if you raise the price, they'll be purchasing less of it. When you set it above the national median income, businesses will either decrease their labor force or get the fuck out of dodge all together.

    Most likely effect? Minimum wage earners make twice as much, but there are half as many. End result? Higher unemployment and greater use of welfare benefits because of it.

    Given the liberal proclivities of Seattle, I can't say I'm surprised. We're talking about people who somehow believe, after the Soviet Union, after North Korea, after Greece, that Welfare Economics works. Even though it's never happened once in history. Glad I moved to AZ and not the Pac-NW.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  2. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:19 PM
    #142
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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  3. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:19 PM
    #143
    MonkeyProof

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  4. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:21 PM
    #144
    4x4Runner

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    At least for Seattle it's only for Seattle. California wants to make $13 an hour state wide by 2017.

    So, Seattle's min wage is $9.32 an hour and it seems California's (except San Fran which is $10.74 an hour, sorry Beavis) is $8 an hour. So...

    $8-$13=$5 increase by 2017

    $9.32-$15=$5.68 increase by 2017.

    Why all the emphasis on Seattle as a city for doing this?
     
  5. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:21 PM
    #145
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Assuming they get the full 40 hours. Me thinks that hours will be cut, and the end result is the employees are going to go from 40 hours a week, to around 28, or so........
     
  6. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:22 PM
    #146
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    What did you fuck up?
     
  7. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:23 PM
    #147
    MonkeyProof

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    Nothing
     
  8. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:25 PM
    #148
    jandrews

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    Sure...same number of employees who now all get half as many hours.

    No matter how you slice it, raising min wage above the median income of the nation is insanity. You might as well beg local businesses to relocate somewhere where labor is 50% cheaper.

    This will not pan out how their feel-good fuzzies think it will.
     
  9. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:27 PM
    #149
    OZ-T

    OZ-T I hate my neighbour

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    How do you do the same amount of work with the same amount of employees in half the hours ?
     
  10. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:30 PM
    #150
    4x4Runner

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    Mathematically, If phased in it would equate to a little over $1.89 an hour or $15.12 more for an 8 hour day each year. So, in one year to break even you would have to cut each full time employees hours by 5 hours or so a week.

    You could do so and ask each employee to do a little more each shift to make up in the lost work.
     
  11. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:31 PM
    #151
    chris4x4

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    Business owner picks up the slack, outsources, hires more part time help. Granted, the ned result in hours having more part time staff would be a net wash, however, the lack of having to pay insurance would offset costs.
     
  12. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:31 PM
    #152
    jandrews

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    Technology, efficient processes, and old fashioned slave-driving.

    Since the late 80s the US has been setting the standard for the world when it comes to squeezing the maximum amount of productivity out of a given employee.

    If minimum wage earners have their hours slashed, the workload will be transferred to salaried employees, or machines, or the services offered will be reduced, or the operating hours of the business will diminish.

    It's not a single axis thing. There are a lot of variables that can cushion the blow in some way, and individual organizations will decide which strategy(ies) they prefer.
     
  13. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:32 PM
    #153
    chris4x4

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    More work? Have you not seen the level of ambition employees have in min wage jobs? Right now, Im sure a company owner is ecstatic if he gets 80% out of an employee..........hell.....Ive had people tell me they just need someone to show up, and do half the job asked.
     
  14. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:36 PM
    #154
    jandrews

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  15. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:44 PM
    #155
    4x4Runner

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    I see the level of entitlement and ambition everyday in my job.

    It's a problem for management then if you want to know. If I knew I was going to get an extra $1.89 an hour or an extra hours worth of wages in a day I'd be doing what I could.

    As is, for 2014 I received a $.26 an hour pay raise yet I'm asked to do more.

    Quite simple, if you don't want to do the work I'm asking you to do for the pay I'm paying you. Goodbye, your services are no longer required, next.
     
  16. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:47 PM
    #156
    4x4Runner

    4x4Runner Sam’s gone, man. Moderator

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    It's called STP. Same Twenty People.

    There's also the "Peter Principle" which you see all to commonly.
     
  17. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:50 PM
    #157
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    And THIS is exactly how it should be. Not increasing the min wage, but motivating people to work for pay. Increasing the min wage is saying "I do a menial job, but want more money for doing it!". Every job needs to be done, but we are talking about jobs that were created for younger people to transition out of. Not try and support a family on.
     
  18. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:52 PM
    #158
    Rich91710

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    We're at $9 now (effective Jan 2014), and go to $10 in 2016.
     
  19. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:53 PM
    #159
    jandrews

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    Agreed.

    Alternatively:

    If I own a McDonald's and now the city is telling me I have to pay my burger flipper double, why on earth am I not just eliminating his position altogether and installing a fancy burger flipping machine?

    At the previous minimum wage, the cost benefit of the machine vs. the human flipper was grey and uncertain. At double time for the human, it's a no brainer.
     
  20. Jun 2, 2014 at 10:56 PM
    #160
    Rich91710

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    Crack the whip.
    I've had plenty of bosses that have pulled that shit, and there's a reason I no longer work for them.

    The average worker spends between 10% and 20% of their workday not actually working. Step up monitoring/observation, if they are field workers, frequent phone calls or surprise visits (which hurt productivity for good workers, but lets poor workers know they are being watched)

    There are plenty of ways to get more productivity out of your employees... not all of them well-received, but when the employee's choice is no job, they do it.
     
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