06 Tacoma Wont start, Mechanics can't find problem. 4,000lb paper weight :(

I have a 206 toyota tacoma that has been nothing but problems the past 2 weeks.

Started with an overheating issue where we found a water bypass hose that was plastic that toyota has since started replacing as a metal pipe. After being replaced the truck ran great except a bubbling/boiling sound in the coolant overflow tank after it was parked.

A couple days of running the truck it started to be very sluggish and sounded like it didn't want to start but would eventually fire up. The check engine light came on and i was told a cylinder wasn't firing and it needed new plugs/tune up so i had that work done. The light was probably reset and didn't come back on but after 2 days the truck started not wanting to start again. it sat for a couple days in the driveway because i couldn't get it to start and one evening after messing with everything i could think of i got it to finally start by holding down the gas and just cranking it over and over and holding down the key for almost 45sec.

The truck ran great once started but i only drove 2 or 3 miles. the next morning it cranked up after a little coaxing and gas and i drove it about 20 miles with no issues at all once it started up.

Drove it to the shop and they checked everything they could think of but can't find the problem.

Anyone have similar problem. Without check engine light anyway to check ECU to see if its a computer problem?

 

Any white smoke when you fire it up or when you finally get it to fire ? From what you described its doing the same thing my Honda did when the head gasket started to let go.

 

Check the oil for water contamination and coolant for oil. If it had an overheating issue, it may have popped the gasket, or if it got real warm it may have warped a head or the block. Start with the simple things first. Check the fluids for contamination.

 

Engine Coolant Temp sensor, maybe.

 

When you say mechanic is it a dealer?? It's difficult to diag a car over the internet, theres just so much crap to check and questions to ask. If you just invest in an hour of diag at a Toyota dealer, about $90-110 on where you live. They will have to give you the answer, but don't be rude just firm about finding a solution. A small investment for your 4k paper weight. I work for a toyota dealer.

 

Based on the OP I'd say the original problem is still there. The gurgling / bubbling sound in the O.F. tank with the overheating point, to me, a head gasket or plugged water jacket (i.e. hotspot in the engine). I'd expect it to be at the Cylinder flagged by the dealer. I'd do a wet/dry compression test and rule out the Gasket first.

My 2 cents. I'd be interested in the final fix .....


Good Luck!

 

Blown head gasket or cracked head / block. If your mechanic cannot find this you need a real mechanic.

 

it must be the head gasket. The mechanic finally did tell me he thought it was the head gasket and wanted $2600 to fix it so i picked it up and brought it home. When i take out the spark plugs i can see coolant in there. Is draining the oil and putting in a head gasket repair worth it and if not what is a reasonable rate i should expect to pay for the repair?

 

I did the gasket stuff in mine and it lasted going on a year, but I don't think I would do it on a newer truck.

 

It's up to you. Either swap head gasket,or swap engine. I would say it's probably easier to swap head gasket

 

Price around for the head gasket. That sounds a little steep for a days work and less than a 100 dollars in parts. Also ask for your money back on that tune up and or find another mechanic. He should have found this right off the bat and not done a tune up.

 

You sure about that? I know a head gasket set and coolant, etc are more than $100. (closer to $175 when you take into account the other gaskets related to doing a head gasket (oil pan, timing cover, etc) on the 2.7 engine. Labor time for a head gasket on the OPs truck is 18 hours, which equates to about $1100, and that is at my lower labor rate of $60 per hour.

 

Hello Bill.
Even at 100 dollars an hour at 18 hours it would not come to 2600 with parts. The gasket kit varies widely as does the coolant. It has been a while since I did any head work, but I would question the 18 hour time frame. In my opinion 10 would be closer, actually less, with proper tools and knowledgeable mechanic.
Your 60 dollar an hour rate I think is a fair price, not low, and not high either, but the 18 hour time frame is in my opinion way over the length it really should take with all the proper tools and a knowledgeable mechanic. In my opinion the job should price out around 1500 maybe 1600, and the shop would still make a good wage, but not 2600.

I just checked with the dealer in my area and parts and labor are 1900 dollars with the head being sent out for inspection. So like I said, non dealer 1500 is more than fair and with a 60 dollar an hour rate it should be closer to 1200 parts labor and w/head inspection. 2600 is a total rip off regardless of who does it.

I would add this. The head could be cracked which would add to the parts price, but not the labor price, but that does not change the original quote price.

 

Don't forget the mark up on parts. If the gaskets are $200 they will probably charge you $400

 

1900 parts and labor at dealer in my area.

 

Sounds like a good deal at the local dealership, and perhaps the OP should at least call around (Not a bad idea for any expensive repair really) I do agree that 2600 is high. When I said the phrase "are you sure about that" I should have been more specific in that I was meaning the cost of a head gasket parts list, and a day to do the job.

While I agree parts costs do vary from location to location, and that your local dealer offering to do the job for $1900 is a good deal, I stand by my labor time. According to Toyota, to replace the head gasket requires removal of the front timing cover. (obviously so that you can remove and then reinstall the timing chain properly) In order to remove the timing chain, you need to remove the oil pan on the 2.7L 4 cylinder (I know because I have done several of them) and according to Toyota, to remove the oil pan on a 2.7L engine, TOYOTA says you must remove the engine. Not trying to argue symantics here or cost, just trying to clarify why a shop would charge so much for a head gasket when we all typically think you just remove the intake and exhaust manifolds, then pop off the head. On the 2.7 it is more complicated than that. Here is the procedure taken DIRECTLY from Toyota:

And that is just to take it apart. Then you go in reverse to assemble.


It doesn't matter if it actually TAKES the 18 hours, or just 10 hours to do the job. Every shop I have ever worked at, and every dealer that I know uses a labor time guide standard for doing a job. The labor time guide for doing a timing chain states 18 hours. So that is what a shop will quote. Granted some dealerships have started to offer better deals for work to draw in the customers that go to smaller shops like me to save money. My point being that depending on multiple things that we may not be privy to, the job may be within that cost frame that was quoted. Perhaps the shop felt that it was in the OPs best interest to have the head cleaned and reconditioned with new valves? Maybe the shop thought it was in the OPs best interest to replace the water pump and the oil pump while the engine was disassembled? Obviously both of us can only guess without seeing the actual quote itself with parts and labor breakdowns.

Either way, the 18 hours in labor time is justified based on Toyota's own procedure to remove a cylinder head.

 

if vehicle overheated chances are you may have warped the engine head, especially if you are hearing the noise from the overflow tank. I suggest taking to a qualified Toyota technician! most dealers will charge a diagnostic fee but at least you will have a answer that is accurate.

 

sorry just realized we are past this part...haha

 

Hello Bill,
actually it does matter how long it takes. Also the dealer rate at that dealership is 125 dollars an hour plus essentials such as shop rags and so on. They are rating it with a Toyota rate book at 12 hours, plus parts and head inspection and coolant coming to 1900 dollars. The head inspection was priced at 200 which was way too much and the overall price is high as any dealer is, but nothing like 2600 or 18 hours labor.

What is happening with many shops is they post a lower hourly rate to trick the public, and use a time schedule that is 1.5 or 2 times or more the real labor time. It is in my opinion shyster mechanics at best.

So to say it does not matter how long it actually takes as long as the a book says it takes a certain amount of time is not honest or good as the customer pays more than they should for a certain hourly job, and is in my opinion theft by deception. I completely understand that the practice is common and it swells the business bank account, but it is not good. The love of money is the root of all sorts of evil and this practice is evil.

It would be no problem is the quote was given as a max price, but actual time was charged at the advertised rate up to that max book time, but charging an hourly rate and then charging for more time than it takes is simply being ripped off and I do not care how many practice it, it is still not right and is dishonest. It is equal to putting ones thumb on the scale.
Leviticus 19:36
Deut. 25:15

If this is your practice then be honest, and tell every customer upfront in writing that even if it takes half the time for the job on any quote they still pay for the book hour quote and see how that works. Just some thoughts.

 

First off, to the quoted part, the Toyota LTG for a 2006 Tacoma 4wd with a 2.7 engine head gasket replacement is 13.3 hours. If they are quoting a lower LTG price of 12 hours, then what they are doing is discounting it to try and be competitive. I just called my local Toyota dealership and asked for a quote. THEIR quote was 18.8 hours of labor plus parts. This is what the standard LTG says is the correct time.


When it comes to the rest of your comment, am I supposed to infer that you are saying I am dishonest because I use the LTG standard for all of my job quotes? According to Alldata's LTG, it says 18.8 hours. Just because I am skilled enough to do the job in less time, does that mean that I should be PENALIZED because I am a good and fast worker?

Let us look at this in a different, but very real similar situation. I am not sure if you work hourly, or salary. Let us assume salary. I give you a job. I pay you $30k per year to run the office. Now in the summer times are slow, and you sit around the office sometimes for 2 or 3 hours a day doing nothing. Are you ripping me off as the business owner because you are not working 2-3 hours a day for a month? Nope, you still get paid the same salary. This is no different that me hiring you to do a head gasket job that pays a specific amount. If I charged based on ACTUAL time doing the job, and had 3 different techs working for me, then one person would get a quote at 12 hours, another at maybe 15 hours, and a third at 20 hours (for the really slow tech) How does THAT sound like being fair at all? When you buy a part from the parts store and it costs you $100, all you know is that that part cost you $100. What if the store got them on sale one time and only paid $30 instead of $50? Would they be ripping you off selling it to you still for $100?

Automobile repair is run in very much the same manner. This is done in an attempt to standardize repair costs. I pay my techs based on flat rate labor time guide to do their job. If the job says 5 hours, they get paid 5 hours. If they get it done faster, in say 3, then good for them, they can move on to the next job. If it takes them 6 because they are lazy and slow, then oh well, they still only get paid 5 hours to do the job. What does this do? Well it incites the techs to work faster to get the work done, rather than drag their ass, get the same pay, and the shop owner is the one who suffers. Doing quotes this way means that EVERY customer will get the EXACT same quote for the exact same job. Nobody will get a lower price from me because Joe is working on it and he can get it done faster than Steve can. How is that being dishonest?