Next Gen mule spy shots

I tend to agree about the 8AR, I don't see the latest and greatest Lexus engine going into a $20K pickup. However I think you maybe onto something with the gap in naming. Typically Toyota tries to keep it's truck engines as simple as possible. Or at least for the past 25 years or so. Although I think we may see some tech that has filtered down from the Lexus Brand. For example D4S injection will more than likely make it's appearance on this gen of engine. It's cheap enough to put on the $25K Scion FRS so why not a cheap pickup. Also Valvematic is being used on the latest gen Corolla Eco. So obviously that tech is now cheap. One technology that we "may" see but I'm not sure about is the variable displacement tech. It would be nice but I'm not sold on seeing it yet.
http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/atkinson-variable-displacement-v8-tundra/

 

If they could get a 5.7 tundra to get 20+mpg with this new variable displacement technology I wonder how much better the mpg could get in the 4.0?

 

Theoretically I suppose a 6 cylinder in a Tacoma with this technology could get 23-25mpg combined. A 4cyl may get high 20s combined. But this technology hasn't even been integrated across the Lexus lineup. Also the Tacoma doesn't have the profit margin that the Tundra does, so putting expensive new tech on a low profit margin vehicle doesn't make good business sense. I could be wrong but I don't think we'll see this on the new Tacoma powertrains. Of course the elephant in the room is the upcoming CAFE & emissions standards. So I still have hope.

 

The Tacoma has a pretty high profit margin I would think. You have the TRD Sport and OffRoad and Baja, that mark up is a premium. And the base model trucks are expensive for what they are, considering all of these trucks use the same parts for the last 10 years. Everyone knows the mid size market is shrinking, IMO this is GM's last ditch effort to compete in this market. If great gas mileage isn't a benefit of a midsize, why not drive a full size and get the same if not better MPG with more capability? (Hence the shrinking mid size market)

 

I hope you are right on this one.

The current 6 speed is the worst manual transmission I have ever driven.

Honestly, I am surprised they are even bothering with a manual, they probably represents less then 5% of tacoma purchases and most of those folks would buy an automatic equipped Tacoma as opposed to another brand of vehicle. They also have a negative impact on CAFE compliance IIRC.

Whatever engine this trans comes attached to, I hope it shares a bellhousing bolt pattern with the current 6, I have little doubt I will need a new transmission in the future and I cannot see throwing money at the current design.

 

thank you!!
i tried my hand at explaining what a mule is...im guessing no one reads the whole thread for answers anymore.

 

I kinda doubt that. The 2TR is pretty outdated. And the 2TR is at the end of what Toyota usually considers a life cycle. (~10yrs) Also the 2TR can't come close to competing with the new Colorado 2.5L 4cyl which makes 200hp. The AR series is far more advanced. I ran across this, it details the features of the 2AR, it's interesting reading and it details some of the features that could be included on the next 4cyl.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1CVzhRDpArJekVCNjBSOFZWSEU/edit?pli=1

 

You speak like you are "in the know". Far be it for me to argue with someone who knows. But, what I was getting at is they have 4 cylinders already in production that with a change of cams and fuel maps would make perfectly fine truck engines. Granted these engines are transversely mounted but this is not a huge design hurdle. Ford has been using their V-8s in trucks and cars for decades. They just change the cams and few other things and call it good.
Honestly, me as a 4cyl owner would not have any incentive to purchase a newer truck with the same ole engine that is pretty underpowered anyway. A new transmission just won't do it for me.

 

The 2GR in the IS350 and GS350 are the 2GR-FSE while the 3.5L in the Sienna, RX350, Camry, etc is the 2GR-FE. They have very different blocks. On the transverse mount ones, the starter bore is on the AT housing and on the longitudinal mounted 2GRs, the starter bore is on the block side. So, they are completely different blocks and engines.

 

It seems like if they update to a modern and efficient v6 and keep basically the same 4cyl, it's going to reduce the major selling point of the 4 which is fuel economy. At the same time, if the v6 has only slightly worse fuel economy (or better lol) and 100 more hp then that'll take care of having to even offer a 4cyl. But maybe since the 4 will be a cast iron living fossil it will be cheap as dirt.

 

I agree, the take rate on the 4 Cyl is so low, I couldn't see Toyota doing a ground up R&D project for one, when the 2TR is pretty much bulletproof.

I sometimes feel like the Tacoma is the successful red-headed step child of the brand. I mean it sells insanely well for being nearly 10 years old, we all here obviously love them, I get compliments on my 2014 daily. But I can't help but think corporate Toyota must hate to have to build these trucks.

But its as if Toyota sort of wishes the Tacoma would die off, so they could focus on Corolla's, Hybrid Avalon's, Camry's and the Tundra.

 

Sorry that was a bit ambiguous. I meant 100 more hp as compared to the future 4cyl option, not the current v6. Toyota would become a laughing stock if they offered a 4 cyl that had worse fuel economy than all of the competition including their own more powerful v6 option in the same truck.

 

Actually my 2011 manual did state to drive the truck in 4x4 at least 10 miles / month to keep everything lubed up. You obviously know more about 4x4's than I do, but my manual did state that.

I'll have to check my 2014 manual later to see if it's still in there.

 

I have looked back at your other posts and noticed that your info seems to be accurate. Hince, I refer to you as someone who is "in the know". I did notice that you refer to the engine as the "TR" and not 2TR. So I'm hoping you mean that another TR series engine is coming. Kinda similar to what took place between the 1st gen and 2nd gen. B/c essentially the 3RZ block carried over, they redesigned the head and called it the 2TR. A more modern head with DVVT and *hopefully* direct injection would be fine.


I would not be so disappointed with this, as someone stated "The 2TR is bulletproof". But it is disheartening to me that my wife's 2.4L Honda makes 26 more hp and 5 more ft/lbs than my 2.7L. Also, that Honda engine will probably last just as long as the engine in my Tacoma.

BTW: It's not that I don't believe you. I have just been waiting for several years now to buy a DC 5 lug. I know that the 2TR in my Access Cab is just adequate. So logic tells you that if you buy a little heavier truck you're gonna need a little more power. So I really had high hopes that the next gen would have a more powerful 4cyl that would pull a DC better. So I guess I'm just putting up a fight b/c I'm so disappointed that Toyota seemingly has ignored the 4cyl owners. The 4cyl (specifically the 22RE in trucks) is what established Toyota's reputation in America. Just sux that they would abandon that legacy.

 

Perhaps their thought were to activate the electrical parts to keep them freed up. I guess if you never activate 4wd then the actuators in the transfer case don't move any. All the MECHANICAL parts are always turning, just not the electro-mechanical actuators. I guess there is a thought process valid on that one.

 

Well, 4 Cylinders, especially old ones, generally need to work harder to move the same mass, so there will likely be little to no benefit in MPG for the 4 Cylinder, simply a lower price. Toyota saw the same in the 4 Cylinder 4Runner that was offered for like all of one year in 2010, similar low take rate in the Sienna, so both dropped the 4 cylinder. Probably a similar fate for the current 4-cylinder Highlander.

 

Another thought. Supposedly toyota is still developing a supercharger for the new dual vvti engine (I read somewhere on t4r it recently failed a test and they were going to give it one more chance before calling it quits). If this is true, it would point to Toyota possibly using the 1GR in the the tacoma again as opposed to the 2GR, since why would they spend money developing a SC for an engine that would be then phased out only 2 years later by 2017 (when the new 4runner in expected). They already killed the FJ so just the tundra and 4runner use that engine, and I believe most tundras are sold with the v8 not the 6.

 

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't bummed to hear this. Six speed or not the 2TR simply just doesn't have the grunt for a Double Cab and the Mileage is dismal in relation to the power sacrifice. If this does prove to be true the 4 cylinder will die. Also this makes me wonder, if Toyota has no plans to improve the 4cyl then will they probably discontinue the 5 lug altogether. Which is a shame, it's one of the only trucks on the market that you can easily load over the side rails like an old truck. All the other trucks have grown so tall that you have to drop the tailgate to load cargo and then you have to climb back there to do anything with it.

 

As someone who works daily out of his 2.7, Double Cab, PR I can tell you while the mill is significantly down on power from its V6 counterpart, it is far from inadequate.

Ran my wife at a light "playfully" to about 50-55 mph (we live in a remote lightly traveled newer community) I was able to keep ahead of her '13 Subaru Outback 2.5, CVT and that car has 172hp compared to my 2.7 DC, which has 159hp. I'm sure the 4.10 gearing in my Tacoma is helping to squeeze out ever ounce of hp per liter though. A '13 Outback is far far from an enthusiastic car to drive, but my point is merely to point out that even with a dog slow 2.7, 4-cyl stuffed into heavy DC Tacoma, it will still hold it's own against modest vehicles.

I also had a lady in a newer, stock four door Wrangler the other day (was Rubicon model) try to "Ace" me out of a two lane merge, and it was no problem getting a head of that vehicle. But I'm sure the Wrangler was the older 3.8L motor, and wasn't the new Pentastar V6 other wise it would have destroyed me.

Again my point isn't to discuss adolescent like driving behaviors, and any WOT throttle action with a 2.7 Tacoma is hardly reckless. But to prove the 2.7 is more than adaquate in all of the available models and trim it's available in the Tacoma line. I also have 265/75/16's on my DC and it's always loaded down with 400-600 lbs in the box.

So if anyone is qualified to say how slow, adaquate or under powered one of these trucks are it is I. I know it's hard to imagine or picture this in ones head, but my DC, 2.7 feels easily as adequate or powerful (in someways more due to the ability to rev out further) than the old 3.0 V6 in the Hilux. IMO my truck feels more powerful and adequate than any of the old VG33 V6 engines used in the Hardbody Nissan's and later 1st gen Frontier.

For a brief second, I almost thought about buying a 2014 Frontier with their 4-Cyl. It felt like it was 10-15 hp down from even the Toyota's 2.7.

 

Wow, I didn't realize that was already happening. There's a significant difference between the current Tacomas engine options as far as fuel economy goes so you can make up the price difference relatively quickly. That doesn't seem to be the case in general any more.

The highlander has a 1mpg difference between the two engine options. And seems about $1200 price difference. But they start at 30k so they arent exactly catering it towards total tightwads.

The current Nissan Frontier shows only 1 mpg difference between the same truck with the 4cyl or v6. and the MSRP price difference is 600 dollars.

it seems to defy logic that the larger engine is more efficient but I guess I haven't been keeping up with technology. I'm sure a big part of it is that the v6 options across the industry have been getting the technology upgrades since they are more popular.

Well it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. At least there is hope for an updated v6 engine.