Laws making it illegal to smoke while driving if children in car

I'm going to give you a hint. When you realize/accept that our government doesn't want an educated/informed population you'll understand why common sense isn't so common anymore.

 

Remember, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

That was a good one...

this....

There is a reason why we spend more money to "educate" our children then any other country, but yet they are still test at tard levels.

Same reasoning is why tobacco sales are still legal IMHO.

Greedy money hungry gubment officials elected by the sheeple for the sheeple.

 

You SERIOUSLY want to apply that kind of thinking to TODAY'S society?

Look, let's take a look at all things in a broad spectrum, since it seems we can't avoid it. The purpose of laws are to protect society. Yes, granted to protect itself from itself at times. So where to start, and where to begin? We all want our freedoms. But freedom costs. You can't have your cake and eat it too, if we want to bring some humor into this. (I like debate, but sometimes things get heated when people's opinions are involved)

You seem to cry out for freedom of the people, but at what cost? What point do we have to say enough is enough? What laws are good laws, and what laws are bad? Who is it that DECIDES what laws are good? Do you agree that the laws against rape are appropriate? What about those twisted individuals who truly believe in their heart that a woman should give it to him, regardless? Who's belief is the right one? Why is YOUR belief more important than mine? Why is it that YOUR belief in how our government should be run more important, or better than mine?

It comes down to the basis of what a civilized society says is MORALLY right. Who decides these morals? We won't even get into a religious debate on this, so don't bring that up, lol. But let's discuss GENERAL morals. Which ones are more important than others? Who decides? Morals are what drives civilized societies, and what makes society survive.

Everyone loves to talk about how screwed up our government is, and how things are too tough, or too lenient, or just screwed up. To this I say: If our government is so screwed up, then why has it lasted longer than ANY other government in recorded history? No, we are not perfect, but we are doing a hell of a lot better than those in the past. As times change, government has to change with it. Yes, we are having more and more laws being created every day, but then again, more and more people are figuring out new way to do immoral, or hurtful things to others for personal gain.

No, our government is not perfect. Yes it is filled with many corrupt people who do things on their own agenda. But still, overall it works. There is no such thing as a perfect society, or a perfect government. Utopia will never exist as long as humans on on the planet. So we work with what we have, and give and get.

 

We're all expressing our opinions here. I try to refrain from using the term "I think" though. It doesn't show how I came to that conclusion and quite frankly, my thoughts ain't worth .02 to the average joe.

All your examples were examples of someone harming another. I've said from the beginning that that should be the basis for any law as it can be proven in court. Laws based on something that might happen are an over reach. I'll be honest, freedom like I'm proposing scares me some because with it comes personal responsibility which includes your own safety. We haven't had that level of freedom in this country since it was founded.

To put it blunt our freedom should extend to the point that we don't take any liberty away from anyone else. As for laws I'll say this. As different as all religions are their core "laws" are all pretty similar (don't kill, steel, adultery, lie in court, etc). You could apply them without imposing religion on a population.

As for the life of our government, is it on the right or wrong track? I say wrong. Every great empire the federal government grew till it imploded and collapsed. Why would I support any law that I think leads us down this road? We're not immune to collapsing, and some say we've already begun. I won't try to derail any more there but denial doesn't mean something won't happen.

As for our screwed up government remember who here is proposing it get more power and who isn't. I know there are no perfect governments. That's why I support limiting it as much as possible so it doesn't get involved in my or your life unless one of us deny someone else that freedom. Power corrupts, absolute power absolutely corrupts.

 

The problem with a law like this is they would play on the sympathy of the people to get it passed and make the law so huge that they could hide all the other crap no one wants passed inside of the law. That in itself is the problem with trying to get something like this passed. Look at all of the stuff that got loaded up in the healthcare law. How does putting the nutrition values on the front of a candy bar really help someone who wants a candy bar? It doesn't, if they want one they will eat it. But look at what it did to everything it affected with prices going up because everything had to be relabeled. I know these are two different things but as far as passing a law this is what happens.

 

You mean we'd have to pass it to find out what's in it?

 

No, but they would make the law so huge that very few would read everything contained in it. Yes those that read the entire law would try to let it out what is in it but look at the amount of people these days that actually pay attention to the news or even read it. Most have no idea what is happening in the world or even around them. They go to vote and pass a law not even knowing what all it contains because all they know of is the main reason it is there not the hidden things contained in it.

 

So you think that second hand smoke in a confined area is not obviously causing damage? I think that is kind of self explanatory. Second hand smoke is dangerous. (Proven) Second hand smoke in concentration (confined area of a car) is dangerous.

 

Personally I believe in the harm principle. Do whatever the fuck you want to yourself and consenting adults as long as you don't infringe others rights.

A kid has no other option than being stuck in a smoking parents car and 2nd hand smoke is proven to be harmful.

 

If the fed stayed out of it, and it was left to the states it could be done somewhat cleanly. It's already been passed by 4 states and I'd rather have them decide on their own citizens. It may be common sense but it's not all that popular if 46 other states have yet to ratify it into law.

Sadly I believe the Fed always likes to get involved and push bloated "bills" downstream at us for good media right before mid-elections. I think this is the feel good story for them.

and I'm outta here with this crazy polatiqe talk...

 

I think I've answered this already. Let's see... yup.

That's also the post I said I was going to bow out on. Since were going in circles I'm going to hold my fingers until I see something new worth replying to. Thanks for the discussion.

Also thank you mods and TW for not locking this thread. I Never thought it would have made it this far.

 

First off, I will also agree that a thank you to the mods for allowing us to have this open discussion is warranted. Most threads like this do get shut down. I believe mostly because those who are having the largest discussion end up throwing names and insults. It is always good to be able to discuss things, even if you have a difference of opinion.

That being said, Mustang, I am really confused on where you get your thoughts on this answer. I really am. If second hand smoke has been PROVEN to be harmful, and this is through the CDC and dozens of other health organizations, how then can you think it is not more harmful to have this in a confined space with children? To me it is no different than say: Getting shot is dangerous, ergo getting shot by several guns is obviously MORE dangerous. Sure, only takes one bullet to kill, but your odds of dying are greater if you get hit by MORE bullets. So I really do not understand your logic.

I just went back and read your post again. you mentioned that kids get out of cars and play like nothing is wrong. Well sure, of course they will. Second hand smoke doesn't kill you instantly. It takes time. What you DO see on a day to day basis is the number of children who ARE getting cancer from second hand smoke. It has already been proven.

 

It's sad that we need these laws but we do. Ignorance is a quickly spreading disease.

 

Just beacause most of us favor this law, it doesn't mean we agree with or trust our lying government. I think it's ironic that the government is trying to protect kids against the dangers of second hand smoke, but they willfully are feeding our kids GMO's. I know this may be another topic, but they both equally keep the cancer centers in business. I'm guessing if you smoke around your children, you also take them to McDonalds.

 

I'll try and explain again. This doesn't meet my criteria for the government to get involved. First, not all children are affected the same from second hand smoke. Some have reactions others don't. No need for a one size fits all law. Second, parents that smoke have different smoking habits around there children. Contrary to popular belief in this thread some do know better and don't smoke when the children are in the car. That smoke still gets in the seats and carpet so I don't see the value of this law. And again, it is based on what might happen to someone else. I HATE laws like that with a passion. Throw all the .gov sources you want at me with how many children suffer from it I promise you there are others who it's not bothering. I can not support a one size fits all law there. That's why I say get evidence from a doctor and go that rout if smoking is affecting a child.

The other reason I don't support it is when you learn what all else me and you are consuming on a daily basis that is soft killing us (chemicals in water, aspartame in drinks, plastic fillers in fast food, etc.) I personally don't see the value in this law alone because it will not be the final solution to our health issues as a nation. It will be a stepping block to more legislation and another foot in the door for the government into our homes and personal lives.

I believe we can both agree the government is on the wrong track currently. So why do we keep allowing it to expand? I'm tired of the .gov trying to help and just making things complicated for everyone and turning maybe well intended laws into nothing but a revenue generating tax on people who can't afford it. I'd rather spend resources educating people rather than passing laws to bring them into submission. DWI is illegal yet how many still do it? Don't cite traffic deaths/injuries as cars have also gotten safer so there are multiple factors.

Please tell me that explained it because I swear half of that I've already said a little different. And don't catch on to one or two sentences and come back and ask why I don't care about children or something. I'm trying to show you here that this fight isn't worth having over this law because there is a bigger fight that probably the majority of the people who voted/posted in this thread don't even know anything about.

/\ this. GMO, flouride in water, food that doesn't decompose. There's more going on then most can imagine and he we are caught up on one thing that won't make 2 drops in the bucket in the big picture.

 

^ I know this might be a crazy idea, but did it ever cross your mind that just maybe they are doing it for the good of the kids? And maybe not just to get their foot in the door to just ruin our lives?

To say it might not bother some kids but could affect others is not a good argument against this law.

Even it bothers ONE child, isn't that one child worth protecting? Why just go ahead and expose a child to smoke and hope for the best?

Believe it or not, there are parents out there who don't care about their kids.

I see it all the time as a caring parent. For example, we can all agree a child can get severely injured or worse die from a fall, correct?

I take my kids to parks to play all the time. I'm always shocked at the lack of attention paid to kids at the park. Specialy little ones. I'm talking just started walking little kids. Parents just let the kids go, and hope for the best it seems. I've caught many a kid from a long fall, with the parent no where to be found. And these are parents that at the very least take time out of their day to entertain their child.

I'm just using that as an example. Now take a parent of an unwanted child who just doesn't give a shit. Driving around with a newborn puffing on a cigarette with the windows up. I truly hope that as a human being you wouldn't mind a law put in place that might just enable that child a somewhat healthy life. You know, just in case it might bother that child. And wouldn't want this law in place just because of your own dislikes of the government.

When it comes to kids, I feel they deserve every opportunity they can get to thrive. They truly are defenseless and helpless when it comes to their environment.

 

If they really wanted what was best for our children don't you think something would be done about the crap allowed in the food at places like McDonalds instead of just some feel good legislation here and there?

Edit: why only restrict parents instead of big corporations?

 

Well, we all know money talks. And quite frankly, if everyone quit smoking we'd all be broke trying to cover the tax loss from it.

Americans like their fast food, but I'm not against regulating that either. But I guess one step at a time?

Just so you know, I don't want pointless and evading laws in place myself. But again, I'm all for protecting a child. Even if that law is just "fluff" to get votes or to make government look good. If it helps a child, fuck it. I'll agree with it all day, everyday.

 

And my thing is until I see the regulations on some corporation instead of mom and pop I'm not supporting starting with mom and pop because they never get around to the corporation. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

It's simple really, the sheeple don't push back as much and there are enough of them brainwashed into accepting any and every way possible from the gubment to protect them from themselves. Until we fix that there isn't going to be a single thing fixed in this country.

edit:

And this here is one of my pet peeves I hate hearing. For me it's the equivalent of saying I don't know any better but someone said it would and I don't have time to research it all out but I'm going with it. Not trying to be rude but do you get what I'm saying? I've been trying to refrain from saying this but it's always used in the gun control crowd. And it does nothing but create victim zones. Not trying to go off into that tangent but I just got to say why it shows ignorance to me rather than compassion which I'm sure you're trying to show.