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TORSPD: NEVR

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Builds (2005-2015)' started by Torspd, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. Sep 18, 2014 at 9:26 PM
    #2501
    ImplicitlyAlberta

    ImplicitlyAlberta VA6DCO

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    David
    edmonton
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    06 SR5 Trail Rated, 16 Tundra CM TRD
    TC Uni Uppers, TC race lowers, TC shock tower gusset/ secondary shock hoop, Modified Pelfrey rear shock relocate, ATO shackle flip,radflo hydro bumps front and rear, Radflo 2.0 CO/ 14" rear, Arb rear air locker, ARB front bump/m8000, Road armor rear bump/m8000, FJ TransCase/ Twin sticks....other shit.
    :tumbleweed:







    Update. Update. Update.
     
  2. Sep 19, 2014 at 6:49 AM
    #2502
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Damn! Nice avatar pic!.


    Updates huh..................well......................................................................................
     
  3. Sep 19, 2014 at 7:51 AM
    #2503
    Lucario Runner

    Lucario Runner Resident Truck/SUV racer

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    San Antonio, TX or nearest race track
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    06 Toyota 4Runner
    AFE stage II intake, APR X1, URD 70mm Throttle Valve (ported and knife edged), NST intake manifold spacer, URD spec U headers, Denso IKH20, URD fuel pump, APR fuel rail, URD Y pipe, URD spec u catback, lightweight water pump pulley, Greddy sandwich cooler plate, Earls oil cooler, IPT valve body, FJ TRD shocks, Cusco front and rear sway bars, Energy Suspension rear track rod bushings and rear link bushings, Carbotech pads, Stoptech ss brake lines, Stoptech slotted rotors, Motul 600 rbf, Limited Grill, Painted hatch cover by me, Painted valve covers by me, Cobra CB, TRD rad and oil cap, Escort 8500, Autometer oil psi and temp gauges, AEM wideband afr gauge, Flexpod, Pioneer 400w speakers.
    it moves under its own power...
     
  4. Sep 19, 2014 at 7:54 AM
    #2504
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Well, I took some pictures of my rotating assembly, as best I could, for another member building his engine. Something to the tone of the rods interfering with the oil squirters. So I took pictures showing that my squirters are still installed. Now, there was an adjustment which had to be made to the pistons. They had to be clearanced/notched, so that the bottom of their shirt would not hit the squirters.

    Which can be seen in these pictures.

    20140915_225404_zpsfkedhwgo_afb2eecfc248e8491cdcd9217cf35ed6f191464c.jpg

    20140915_225340_zpsmmm8m3qd_af0c817417a293b3ee9233866ab1891297328326.jpg

    20140915_224602_zps7bog7rev_82a3b553052037b490f1eab8b729f5eff77214e7.jpg
     
  5. Sep 19, 2014 at 8:17 AM
    #2505
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    I just paid off a second built engine. Non stroker, but sleeved. That will be here soon. Needs a little TCL, but can be back up and proper pretty quickly.

    Went to Kozmic Motorsports on Monday, to have them change the injector size, on my ProEFI. Ran into a few glitches, but will be back up there soon enough to get that finished with. Was missing some files. Then I can at least run the old turbo/kit as well as finish up a get things with the exhaust routing. Keep it at low boost, so I can at least have a little cure for my addiction, while I wait to finish the built engine.

    Found a new highly recommend guy to do my crank work. Need to get all of my tolerances together so that we know how much material can be removed. Then, pull the crank and give it to the master.
     
  6. Sep 19, 2014 at 8:28 AM
    #2506
    StAndrew

    StAndrew Wait for it...

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    Hampton Roads, Va
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    Intake, exhaust, lift. Typical stuff.
    Hey man, what did you use for your gaskets? Ive been pointed towards using the Cu based high temp FIPG for all the seals (turbo and headers) vice the metal gaskets.
     
  7. Sep 19, 2014 at 8:50 AM
    #2507
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    On my headers to heads, I use the OEM multi-layer steel gaskets. Between the turbo flange on the turbine housing, and the T4 flange on the up pipe, I use a copper gasket. If the flange on the up pipe has irregularities, any back pressure will blow that gasket maker out. Unless you have a large turbine housing and large A/R, to reduce back pressure. For me, the stainless T4 gaskets would always leak. My T4 flange isn't perfectly smooth. The copper gasket, fixed that leak and have never had a problem since.

    I have known of techs at PowerFab to use even the regular FIPG as their gasket, and the stainless. Not for me though. If you are interested in a copper gasket, Summit Racing has them. Mine was about $13. For me, best gasket investment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
  8. Sep 19, 2014 at 8:59 AM
    #2508
    StAndrew

    StAndrew Wait for it...

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    Hampton Roads, Va
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    Intake, exhaust, lift. Typical stuff.
    I got some Cu gasket maker and was planning on using it to mount the turbo (heard so many issues associated with the stainless gasket) but wasn't sure about the headers. They aren't bad but not exactly flat either.

    Im planning on running a short 3" exhaust with one cat converter so back pressure after the turbo should be low.
     
  9. Sep 19, 2014 at 9:21 AM
    #2509
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    Tor
    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    I also have a removable cat in my exhaust system. It is a high flow one from Vibrant Performance. A ceramic core. I plan on switching that out to a nicer high flow metal core one from Magnaflow.
     
  10. Oct 1, 2014 at 7:45 PM
    #2510
    HomerTaco

    HomerTaco also HomerTaco Vendor

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    HomerTaco ...................................................................................................................................................... Core-Hurst short throw shifter & T-handle / Carbon Fiber Interior / custom console light / De-badged / leather interior / Heated Front seats / Red Line Hood Struts / Painted speaker grills /one-off TRD Satoshi Grill with 12-15 front-end swap/ Pioneer AVIC-X920BT HU / Scangauge II / Black LED Tails / Dash Mount for iPad mini / Safari Snorkel / Auto-pilot mode / Leer 100XQ Cap / 4x Innovations sliders / Rear Diff Breather Mod / front windows tinted to 35% / Brute Force Fab Hybrid Front Bumper / BAMF Rear Diff Skid / Budbuilt Skids / CBI Trail Master 2.0 rear hybrid bumper / Fox rr coils/ TC UCA's/ TC spindle gussets/ TC Cam Tab gussets / Dakar leafs / Defined Engineering shackles / All pro U bolt flip / Timbren Rear Bumpstops / BAMF LCA skids / Exhaust re-route / Fog Light anytime Mod / LowRange Off Road extended rear brake lines / ATO Shackle Flip / sectioned Bushwhacker flares / re-geared to 4.56 / ARB Front & Rear Locking Diff / ARB CKMA12 compressor / PrInSu full rack system / 1" body lift / Inchworm 4.7 crawlbox / twin stick FJ t-case / Davez off-road triple-stick kit/
    Mark,
    I remember reading some information you posted that there were a couple different oil pans for the 1GR... What were they? It's easier to ask then to dig through all the info in your build. :eek:
    Thx!
     
  11. Oct 1, 2014 at 8:08 PM
    #2511
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    4x4 / PreRunner and the shallow, which is primarily on Xrunners, but also some base model V6's.
     
  12. Oct 1, 2014 at 8:10 PM
    #2512
    HomerTaco

    HomerTaco also HomerTaco Vendor

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    HomerTaco ...................................................................................................................................................... Core-Hurst short throw shifter & T-handle / Carbon Fiber Interior / custom console light / De-badged / leather interior / Heated Front seats / Red Line Hood Struts / Painted speaker grills /one-off TRD Satoshi Grill with 12-15 front-end swap/ Pioneer AVIC-X920BT HU / Scangauge II / Black LED Tails / Dash Mount for iPad mini / Safari Snorkel / Auto-pilot mode / Leer 100XQ Cap / 4x Innovations sliders / Rear Diff Breather Mod / front windows tinted to 35% / Brute Force Fab Hybrid Front Bumper / BAMF Rear Diff Skid / Budbuilt Skids / CBI Trail Master 2.0 rear hybrid bumper / Fox rr coils/ TC UCA's/ TC spindle gussets/ TC Cam Tab gussets / Dakar leafs / Defined Engineering shackles / All pro U bolt flip / Timbren Rear Bumpstops / BAMF LCA skids / Exhaust re-route / Fog Light anytime Mod / LowRange Off Road extended rear brake lines / ATO Shackle Flip / sectioned Bushwhacker flares / re-geared to 4.56 / ARB Front & Rear Locking Diff / ARB CKMA12 compressor / PrInSu full rack system / 1" body lift / Inchworm 4.7 crawlbox / twin stick FJ t-case / Davez off-road triple-stick kit/
    What year T4R has the 1GR? I think my donor pan came from one.
     
  13. Oct 1, 2014 at 8:18 PM
    #2513
    GoHigher

    GoHigher Well-Known Member

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    03+ runners have 1gr. Not sure when they stopped
     
  14. Oct 1, 2014 at 8:25 PM
    #2514
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    ^^^^ Correct.
     
  15. Oct 1, 2014 at 8:28 PM
    #2515
    HomerTaco

    HomerTaco also HomerTaco Vendor

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    HomerTaco ...................................................................................................................................................... Core-Hurst short throw shifter & T-handle / Carbon Fiber Interior / custom console light / De-badged / leather interior / Heated Front seats / Red Line Hood Struts / Painted speaker grills /one-off TRD Satoshi Grill with 12-15 front-end swap/ Pioneer AVIC-X920BT HU / Scangauge II / Black LED Tails / Dash Mount for iPad mini / Safari Snorkel / Auto-pilot mode / Leer 100XQ Cap / 4x Innovations sliders / Rear Diff Breather Mod / front windows tinted to 35% / Brute Force Fab Hybrid Front Bumper / BAMF Rear Diff Skid / Budbuilt Skids / CBI Trail Master 2.0 rear hybrid bumper / Fox rr coils/ TC UCA's/ TC spindle gussets/ TC Cam Tab gussets / Dakar leafs / Defined Engineering shackles / All pro U bolt flip / Timbren Rear Bumpstops / BAMF LCA skids / Exhaust re-route / Fog Light anytime Mod / LowRange Off Road extended rear brake lines / ATO Shackle Flip / sectioned Bushwhacker flares / re-geared to 4.56 / ARB Front & Rear Locking Diff / ARB CKMA12 compressor / PrInSu full rack system / 1" body lift / Inchworm 4.7 crawlbox / twin stick FJ t-case / Davez off-road triple-stick kit/
  16. Oct 2, 2014 at 2:37 AM
    #2516
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Here is a side by side.


    CIMG2957_9cdcd3978501900503c44b10a212aca39cabdc4b.jpg

    CIMG2954_09587ef2ab105931edc0ff31b4962619d2becd02.jpg
     
  17. Oct 7, 2014 at 6:22 AM
    #2517
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    Finally took some time to pull the heads off of the engine which I purchased from DoubllD. Dan, respectfully, we see why you had problems. Even the problems which you overcame, still left more to deal with, which would have sooner or later revealed themselves.

    I'll start with the pistons first, although that was the second issue we found.

    20141006_155557_zpsr57swsau_92f7bff0cc8d4845546760a29d63563a4074e255.jpg

    20141006_155757_zpse653fany_8314937bd311a186a8152c1159c004ef68982ef2.jpg

    It isn't very much, but they protrude above the deck. More than likely due to the machining of the deck. That fact alone, if not accounted for by increasing the thickness of the head gasket, would have raised the compression ratio from the 9.5:1 that those pistons were machined to be, to something higher. Timing could have then been too high, if it was thought that the compression was one ratio, but actually another.


    Then, comes the next issue.


    Whoever machined the decks, did a pitiful job. Painfully. It is no wonder you had head gasket issues. I only found one spot where I could feel no difference between the deck of the block and the edge of the sleeves, where they meet. Everywhere else, the sleeves were on a higher plane than the block. Thus there is a sealing issue that could not be avoided. I don't know if it was APR or another machine shop who did that, but any Joe could have felt that and known how bad a job was done by the machinist.

    20141006_155743_zpslrik9wep_e3bc628d3dceedace7a952d626591c9431ab8bd0.jpg

    20141006_155807_zpsb72d6ovz_d8ffa2035c3aefd2886cb908940f0ef12cccd450.jpg


    Then, there was either something going on with the tune, or a combination of trying to tune with a possible head gasket issue. As the driver side piston crowns are clearly darker than the passenger side. Let it be noted that the driver side deck had a lot worse machining than the passenger deck.

    Still have further to check into the engine, but there is a good sign. The heads are in good shape. This engine will have the decks re-machined, likely one head which has a couple of tiny marks on it, and if all else is right, be back together stronger and correctly.


    Also getting some work done on the turbo kit, so that I can get that back up and running at a small but safe 5 psi. Should be dropping off the truck in a few weeks to have the wastegate re-routed back into the exhaust so that it will sound much nicer to the ears. More refined, as well as look and perform better. Pics to follow as it takes place.
     
  18. Oct 7, 2014 at 8:21 AM
    #2518
    Torspd

    Torspd [OP] Tor-nication

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    The Great America!
    Vehicle:
    MMVI 4.4L 4x4 Access Cab
    Torspd Custom Turbo kit [] Borg Warner 9180EFR Turbo [] Haltech Elite 2500 [] TiAL Q BOV [] TiAL V44 Wastegate @ 15psi [] CP Pistons [] CP Carrillo Rods [] ARP Head studs [] ARP Main Studs [] ARP Header - Head Studs [] Ported Heads w/ 1mm oversized valves intake/exhaust [] Brian Crower Forged Stroker Crank [] Darton M.I.D. Sleeved Block [] Kelford Camshafts [] Torspd 160* T-stat mod [] APR Large Fuel Rail [] Walbro 460 LPH E85 Fuel Pump [] FueLab FPR [] APR T56 Conversion Kit [] KP RACING Built T56 [] McLeod Racing Custom Twin Disk Clutch [] One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft [] MGW Shifter [] Custom lowering kit [] Ohlins Front Coilovers [] QA1rear shocks [] Custom Ron Davis Radiator [] Dual SPAL Electric Fans []
    I seriously should have taken a picture, but didn't have a phone with me. When I went to Kozmic Motorsports yesterday, I brought my big ass BW 9180 EFR turbo with me. Thry wanted to see if it would fit with their current turn manifold, and what would be necessary if it didn't, on their built Evo MR engine. Popped off the Precision 6466 and the Borg Warner fit right in its place. Compressor outlet was close, still had room. It will be very cool to see what they can do with that or a slightly smaller version. They are trying to break the 1/4 mile record for that car. They have a faster trap, but can't get out of the hole fast enough. This style turbo should be able to help with that since it spools so fast.
     
  19. Oct 7, 2014 at 8:30 AM
    #2519
    Large

    Large Red

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    Dropping tons of knowledge here, dunno what it all means but I still love reading.
     
  20. Oct 10, 2014 at 5:35 PM
    #2520
    weazleburger

    weazleburger Well-Known Member

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    ^^^definitely this
     

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