ABS on this truck is dangerous...

I dont think my 2002 has abs or esc So as a result I am a bit worried about flipping

 

As I said, in my post, if they can INDIVIDUALLY pulsate EACH wheel's brake pressure 100 times in one second, I would bow out. While they are all talented drivers, NONE of them are capable of doing what I said. But as Oz and DoorDing have both said, this is all getting old.

 

I'm not sure what difference it makes in light of the fact we already agreed on the two main points that ;

A) ABS increases stopping distances on snow

and

B) the ABS system in the Tacoma is ridiculously sensitive

 

No need to kill it permanently . just install a kill switch for the ugly ice days and steep gravel offroad inclines. http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...kill-switch-mod-05-offroad-easy-way-pics.html

 

I just slogged my way through most of this... lol


I've been driving a lot of vehicles in crappy, snowy stuff for a lot of my almost years... Things with no ABS, things with ABS,, race cars, motorcycles.

Whoever said "It's the tires". wins!!! Abs works best when there is SOME traction. When there is NO traction it doesn't.. SO... You need traction.

In a street environment, that means real, honest to god snow tires. NOT total junk, do nothing well, cheap ass manufacturer, all season tires... If you live where they allow studs, that's even better... If you don't then real dedicated snow/ice tires are far superior. All season tires are like Fox News yapping about the 47%, or MSNBC yapping about the 1%. No real substance.... (see went both ways there in order to offend everybody...lol)

If you're off road, it's probably best to disable the ABS.

 

Exactly what I said earlier.

My Subaru was equally as sensitive with ABS. I drove that on A/Ts for a winter and had a few very scary moments where I almost did not stop in time. It'll keep you going in a straight line, but at the expense of stopping distance.

I run dedicated snow tires on my Tacoma and almost never have the ABS kick in.

With those tires and 4 HI on, it often feels like I'm on dry pavement while everyone else is sliding all over the place and can't get started on hills.

 

What you have stated is the theory behind ABS systems and how they should work. Unfortunately the ABS systems on the Tacomas are either overly sensitive or poorly designed. On more than one occasion I was in a situation where only one side was on snow or ice and the other on solid ground. I step down on the brakes and the truck starts to slow down then the ABS system takes over and RELEASES the brakes.

And for the guy that said tires make the difference. I agree to a point. We just put a set of michelin snow tires on the GF's Subaru and they made a huge difference over the normal tire. That being said my experiences with snow tires on the Tacoma made absolutely no difference when compared Revo's that were on it at the time. Back in around 2006-2007 I decided to try dedicated snow tires as everyone was preaching the same "it's the tires non-sense". Off came a brand new set of Revo's and on went a brand new set of Bridgestone Snow tires. They made zero difference in the way he truck stopped or accelerated but did have much better grip around curves. After backing down my driveway and rolling into the street due to the ABS kicking in I pulled the ABS fuse, removed and sold the snow tires and have been happier since.

While I agree that ABS might help the less than average driver I don't feel they do anything for someone with an IQ above single digits..

 

I love how this thread reappears every winter. It reminds me of why I got rid of my BFG ATKO's. I am in the land of ice and snow, those tires did nothing but antagonize my ABS all winter long. Since being free of that waste of rubber my ABS has been reasonably mannered. All said and done, if I had the choice I would prefer to rely on my own control, propaghanda be damned!

 

Why has nodody mentioned all of the threads in this forum where people DISABLED ABS so they can stop FASTER on sand?

After disabling ABS drivers report an enormous improvement when stoping on sand? Like night and day difference? True or not? It's true, right?

So ... how could anyone blindly assume Toyota ABS has to always be better on ice?

 

Just wanted to post my experience with ABS in my Tacoma. After finding myself in the middle of an intersection not able to come to a stop I wanted to try something. Next snow I tried to stop and had the ABS kick in again. Tried again in the same spot with the ABS fuse pulled and stopped in less than half the distance without sliding or skidding. The stock Dunlop tires that came with my truck without ABS were not that bad in the snow(not good, but not that bad). I have driven alot of vehicles with ABS and my Tacoma is the worst. I hope Toyota soon finds a fix for this problem.

 

Sand piles like snow, and that's why non ABS works better in that situation. ABS is design for ice/slick roads and maintaining steerage under poor road conditions. After tests with many drivers on skid cars both the RCMP and Transport Canada have conclusively proven that in the split second an abrupt maneuver is required ABS more often than not trumps threshold braking.

Argue all you want, I challenge you to take a defensive driving course that uses a practical including skid cars and try ABS vs non ABS on a course before you judge your own superior level of skill without ABS.

If you want to disable ABS be my guest. Offroad, in sand, in deep snow, and on dry roads it will help you stop faster. I'm not here to argue that at all. I think if it's raining and you have a car brake to zero fifty feet in front of you on the freeway you're going to wish you had ABS after you clock that car in a skid. It's difficult for your human brain to brake correctly and steer in the split second you need to execute that maneuver without ABS.

 

Would anyone blindly believe that some stupid computer programmer wrote the perfect firmware to stop a truck? Only if they never ever used a computer or a phone once in their entire life.

I begin to wonder if ABS might be Toyota's "Blue Screen of Death"?

 

Clever experiment. Thanks for sharing that.

Sounds similar to what some drivers found in sand?

By the way, I'm not saying to disable ABS. I'm saying that it should be looked at with an open mind, and fast. I'm wondering if Toyota ABS might be dangerous in some conditions?

 

Why anyone would believe they'll have enough time before an accident to remember to perfectly threshold brake and steer over utilizing the ABS system and steer is beyond me.

It's not blind belief. I've taken several practical defensive driving courses that involved getting in the skid car. After a few corners and abrupt maneuvers you begin to realize why ABS exists.

I'm not sure why someone hasn't mentioned the mod where you put ABS on a switch. That way in area's you know the Tacoma ABS is failing you, you can simply leave it switched off. However on a rainy or slick day where you'll be in a lot of traffic or on a freeway you can leave it switched on. Kind of seems like a no brainier to me if you solidly believe ABS on this truck is the devil.

 

The point I am trying to make in GENERAL, is that in a vehicle with a properly designed ABS system, it is much safer than trying to manage your own brakes. I do try to always reiterate that the Tacoma system IS flawed majorly. Many of my recent comments were about ABS in general, not specific to the Tacoma. I still am a firm believer that the average driver is nowhere near capable of handling a vehicle better on their own, when traction becomes an issue, than with the ABS system operating. Yes Toyota is crappy, but go drive an Audi, or a BMW with ABS in snow and ice. Those ABS systems are AWESOME. Toyota should read their books. lol

Not "blindly" believing anything. I work in the industry and have been diagnosing and repairing ABS systems since the early 90s. I am quite aware of their capabilities, when designed and working properly.

I do however realize that the Tacoma system is quite flawed, and in some cases has proven to be dangerous.

 

What??? When was rain mentioned? Or 65 mph on a freeway?

The OP was talking about snow and ice at 5 mph at an intersection for crying out loud.

 

I'd counter that your governor and traction control are not really going to effect things much in an accident. Removing your airbags, if anything, hurts you and not other drivers. If you put in race seats and a 5 point belt system than I can understand removing the airbags because your system won't let you kiss the dash panel anyways. As always just make sure the mounting system for those seats is strong enough for the driving you are doing and be prepared for broken collar and/or hip bones in very sever accident because that's where all the energy will be dissipated from your body to the truck with that system.

None of those things, IMHO, have anything to do with ABS. No ABS off road in mud or sand is a lot different that no ABS on a wet freeway. Like I said, the no ABS switch modification seems to be the way to go for most people who go off road or are finding the Tacoma ABS not to there liking.

 

Than change rain for ice. Whatever low friction surface floats your boat .

 

No no and no. Totally different things. Trust me on this.

I'm a chemist. I'll stick to my own personal knowledge of physics. But I'll look to you for information relevant to "defensive driving" at 5 mph.