Do you work for the union? do you like it?

I think he thought you made this comment. ^^^

I don't think I understand what you mean. No one is forcing the contractor to do what the union wants. All our contractors are voluntary union contractors that sign a negotiated contract every so many years.

 

And it doesn't have necessarily need to be union to experience the above problems within the gov't. I know there are broad groups of white collar employees in the federal govt exempt not covered by union rules. The govt employment system rules are still draconion enough to tie the hands of most managers when it comes to bad employees.

 

I got you OZ. Ain't no thang. I have broad shoulders!

 

This is true. My wife is a fed and she isn't in a union. She complains about certain individuals she works with that are lazy POS's and get away with ridiculius things and will never be fired.

 

agreed!

 

There's a reason why VW and Mercedes IG unions wanted union workers here. They're concerned that without a union wages and benefits, the company will shift work to the US and out of Germany.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304672404579183560759486136

 

Beavis' idea of a normal work day.




My idea of a normal work day.

 

tell your dad it's *you're

 

Beavis I am so glad that you DEEDNT need help. Bye- Bye

 

Fixed your story.

 

We'd probably get a lot more agreement in this thread if we distinguish between craft unions and industrial unions.

I think when most people hear "Union," they think industrial union as opposed to a craft union like IBEW.

 

Never joined a union, but I had to cross a picket line for over a year.

One of my former employers was a DoD subcontractor. Assembly line electronic work, half Electrical Union, the other half Teamsters. The company wanted to standardize the contracts and offered a new contract to both unions. The contract looked pretty good, more money, same time off - just a shift in holidays (MLK day became a holiday, Easter wasn't a holiday). The Electrical union was cool with it, the Teamsters promptly went on strike. For the next year, there were a bunch of scruffy losers parked outside the gates.
I'm an IT guy, front office, no affiliation with either side, but that didn't stop them from yelling crap and blocking my way. Almost drove my '01 Ranger over a few of the dirtbags until the lawyers forced them off property.
As the strike went on most of the Teamsters dropped the union and came back to work. The trouble makers stayed outside and kept harassing people. The Teamster union stopped sending people to man the picket line after 6 months (Yes, the unions will pay people to picket outside a company). Eventually, it was just a few old hags yelling into bullhorns. Then the union "forgot" to file the correct paperwork (yeah, I guess you have to file with the government to picket), and the picket line was declared illegal. The last of the strikers were declared officially fired, and they finally faded away. They lost their jobs, benefits and were now blacklisted from all DoD contractors. All that for a stupid holiday change.
You can keep your unions. I'll make my own way thanks.

 

are you talking to me

 

The debate rages on..................

 

I would think that if anyone really wants to make an argument for or against a union, it would be better to first ask the question: what should a union do for its workers? I think, just like with anything else, that a union is only as good or bad as the workers make it. My union at work was worthless till we had a change of leadership, now I like it. My partners union is declawed by our glorious state, partly because of the state leaders and partly becuase the members and leaders of the union don't want to play hardball because of the people involved.
On a different but related note, I'm also a member of a few guilds and associations. While not unions they function in a way as unions should, in my opinion, by giving education connections and support for a members career.
There is also a rule pf thumb that a coworker of my older brother once told us. He said 20% of the people at any job are the bottom of the bell curve at any moment, those people are bad at or just hate their jobs, but that they will be kept at work because they are less costly to keep than replace, or they are not bad consitantly enough. They just get by.
Idealy everyone will do what they want to do, and make a living doing it. But that's not reality right now, and even if that was posible there would still be bad workers and bad days at work. Having protections for workers overall is a good thing, I hope we could all agree, but I don't think that unions have be made redundant by laws on the books yet.

 

Here's 2 examples.

1) The state of Pennsylvania does not require a license to do or be an electrician. A non union contractor can hire any person off the street regardless of experience. He might be some kid just starting out or have years of experience and call himself a journeyman. No set standard.

For the union, you can't just join. You must go through 5 years of schooling and apprenticeship plus 8000 hours on the job training. You can also test in as an experienced individual, most of whom end up starting at some level in the schooling. If they can prove their ability they start as a journeyman.

With a union electrical contractor you're guaranteed a level of knowledge and skill.



2) Recently I was on a job at a community college, which makes it a prevailing wage job by law. This means that the highest pay rates for a given trade must be paid to the workers of that trade, who ever gets the job. For example, the highest wage for a pipe fitter must be paid to the awarded pipe fitter workers, and so on for all trades.

As the job got closer to coming to an end the POS owner of the drywall contractor fired all but 1 of his guys. The foreman. These were good guys that worked hard and did a good job. They simply were making more than he wanted to pay. He then brought in about 15 Mexicans not making prevailing wage to slam up a bunch of drywall, and they were terrible. Covering our devices and cutting out areas that they shouldnt. Couldn't communicate with them to work together because they didn't speak english.

WE called the department of labor and told them what was going on. You know what their action was? Nada. They didn't do a thing. So much for govt protection.

That would not have happened with a union contractor.

 

I never worked as an IT person, but I've had to talk to one to try and solve a problem. He was an idiot and couldnt help me. This must mean all IT people suck.

 

A certified electrician does not need to sign off on the panel connections and pull the electrical permit ?

 

No. An inspector signs off on all work.

 

Sorry, I misread your post. An inspector signs off on all work. The general contractors pull most of the permits.