SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Then you are gonna be buying a wind shield too First time you hit the brakes, into the glass the piston goes.

 

This is really good advice here!

 

Koditten, probably right w/my luck! Good grief! Fine, it'll be some other kind of ornament, but I gotta at least get a souvenir out of this whole fiasco - plus a good reminder to PULL CODES WHEN CEL COMES ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

hang it from the trailer hitch instead of those big brass nuts lol.

everyone will be curious to hear the story of the little piston that sent you on a journey to hell and back lol.

I still say save your money and get a salvage yard low mileage motor and it will long outlast the truck before it wears out but if you have to have the peace of mind and can afford it a rebuild is a great option if money doesn't matter

 

Once you build your nice BIG HEATED SHOP,,you can set it on the shelf of shame.

No rear view mirror with it, please. That sucker will bonk you in the head, way out 4 wheelin,,and it will have scored another win.

 

I'm with this guy...
Buy a 100k mile used complete engine
If you want to be absolutly sure it will last you a long time- pay a competent shop to install a complete OEM gasket set ($250) (it will come with all new seals as well) then buy a timing belt / water pump kit from domestic gasket on eBay ($100), they use a decent kit made by GMB who is a oem supplier for alot of automotive brands- all their bearings for the timing kit (idler and tensioners) are koyo,ntn or skf- which are all good quality- have the shop install this on the used motor you bought while its out of the truck- labor cost would be about 1/3 of what it normally would if it was in the vehicle. That being said you could do ALL this from start to finish for less than $2500 and not have to lift a finger.
Head gaskets are the first major expense engine repair usually- granted most Toyotas go 200k + without head gasket failure (unless its a 3.0) but this will pretty much guantee 100k out of the new motor without any maintenece on your part. The tech that installs the gasket set will be able to see what the internals of the salvage motor look like before they install it.
If anything looks suspicious upon disassembly they will point it out-trust me- they wouldn't install an engine they thought was questionable possibly having to do it twice.
Then you can still buy Mexican food on fridays-because you saved 2 grand over the $4500 dollar guy, not bother your neighbor or have your husband worried about resetting the timing on a dohc engine- on top of all that a complete salvage engine will have 90% of the fuel system on it (aside from the pump and fuel filter) which will eliminate worrying about one of your current injectors psoosibly being the problem for having a hole in your piston.
Just my .02

 

JDM is a reputable company. They have been selling these types of engines for many, many years.

I would run fast and far from a Jasper engine. They used to be really good, but I have heard MANY horor stories as of late, and their prices are stupid-high.

 

So true Keakar, so true - "the little piston that sent us on a journey to hell and back" - sounds like a song title. Hmmm, maybe I can make some money off this?

 

OK guys, today's goal is shortening up my looooooooooooooong list of questions I have for $4500 guy. After talking to him twice and likely already covering some of these topics, I'm scared that if I email/call him w/this many additional questions, he might say, screw this, these people are nuts, I don't need their business that bad! He's been great/patient about it all so far, but everyone has their limits......

One of my questions for him is regarding cylinder heads. When I talked to him, I asked who he uses for his machine work. He said Baxter, and husband said they did a good job on rotors for our old Blazer and seemed very professional, clean, etc. Then when I called machine shops while chasing the idea of rebuilding our engine, a place highly highly highly recc' $4500 guy, said he does great work, great guy, and he's been providing cylinder heads to him for long time, so he's known of his quality long term - AND side note, that's the same shop that another mechanic we considered using uses, so seems $4500 guy must be better. Anyway, what's strange is the sentence I italicized, in the fine print of $4500 guy's warranty:

This warranty info is from webpage for people that buy the engine and put it in themselves, but I suspect warranty will be virtually the same if having them install it too, or at least the cylinder head part. Does it seem strange that a cylinder head place in Alabama is mentioned? Anyone heard of that place? I googled that place and Jeep forums came up saying they went out of business/morphed into different business w/different name, and guys were making some crude jokes about it. Am I nuts for looking this far into this? Wait, don't answer that....... Just seems odd that now there's 3 places mentioned in relation to cylinder heads, and one of them is in Alabama while we're in the NW! So that's my question - does that seem odd to you guys? Guessing you'll know better than I do if that's weird!

 

I am sure he is just listing all 3 vendors he may use because one or two may be his normal vendor (they all have a back up vendor in case its a rush job) for normal head jobs and the other one may be a third backup or a specialty shop used for high performance and racing type head jobs.

its perfectly normal that he isn't going to warranty any labor for any head failure related issues since he didn't do the head work so that is not in his control and no reflection on his work and no fault of his work if a vendor rebuilt or refurbished head fails.

I am sure he covers any gasket related installation issues with the head but that's it.

I think 4500 guys price might be a little higher then some but I think you found out enough to understand he does quality work and guys that go the extra effort and make sure the quality is high will charge more so I think you can feel comfortable you are paying extra for quality of work and not just he wants more profit then most.

I think you should get very drunk this weekend celebrating your final final final decision has finally been made, and bring your truck to 4500 guy on Monday then go home and relax knowing your baby is in good hands.

if you have a preference for which head shop works on your head, then im sure he doesn't care as long as you understand it might delay things if they are busy with other jobs so you can agree on this detail and just be sure its a clear understanding and put in writing on the work order you sign authorizing him to do the work to avoid "surprises" later.

also tell him you want him to put in a full set of new boshe upgrade 4 hole injectors installed in the engine and make sure that is written on the work order and that he will put all the old parts that are removed be put in the bed of the truck.

its not huge money but the scrap aluminum values on the pistons alone is probably enough to get a 12 pack of beer and things like your old injectors have resale value on ebay so you might be talking about $50 plus value there for a set of used OEM injectors that need refurbishing.

not to mention your souvenir piston is of great value to you

 

I put less effort, stress, anxiety into buying my truck when new.

God bless your husband. It seems as though he's a real nice and quiet guy.

 

Thanks Keakar! I love every part of your advice!!! Better start on this part ASAP:

 

did he say how long it would take once you brought it in?

with the holidays so close you can forget anything being done between Christmas and new years but will you have it for the new year I hope?

I know you have been missing not having it for so long

 

Keakar, he said ~2 weeks. It does suck not being able to drive Taco last 2 weeks, but since I'm not working right now, at least it's not a huge problem. But normally I drive to this great park every day to take our dog on a long walk and chase squirrels, so she'll be super happy when Taco is back too!

Just went through our giant file of receipts on Taco. Found an invoice from Toyota service dept in July 2007, at 110K miles. And guess what it said?

"Customer states when pulling a hill engine cuts out and sputters. Test drove & verified concern. INSPECTED AND FOUND #3 SPARK PLUG, PLUG WIRE AND COIL CARBON TRACKED. Replaced spark plugs, wires, and #3 coil. Test drive and no further concerns at this time." The tech's handwritten notes listed "NOISE IN FRONT ENGINE AREA" They recc' fuel injection cleaning service, which we had them do, along w/new plugs, and new plug wire and coil on #3.

June '09, at 131,000 miles, we reported a growling noise coming from engine at Toyota dealer; they replaced A/C clutch and replaced 2 leaking valve cover gaskets - is that normal for those to leak at that mileage?

What does this all mean? When this started 2 wks ago, the boot for the #3 plug that was missing it's center electrode was covered in carbon stuff, just like the 2007 notes above. Obviously something goofy has been going on with #3 area since all the way back to 7/2007, and who knows how long before that. And that was at only 110K miles - how could a Taco's engine malfunction that young? Think a bad engine was put into our Taco before we bought it? Or it just has fuel injectors that malfunction alot at #3? How often are those things supposed to be cleaned/replaced? I can't help but wonder when this all started and why, even if the end result is the same. Seems this info might at least help point to the cause of the problem? Yesterday a buddy of my husband's suggested attempting to retrieve electrode from that well w/a magnet (even after he saw the borescope video of that piston), then if noise was gone, driving on our merry way. Guy's theory is maybe that piston's had a hole/dent for a long, long time - is that possible, that it could drive normally for years like that? Yesterday I said that's crazy, no way. But finding this receipt now......totally confused. Husband is now talking about trying to retrieve electrode, then replacing #3 coil and plug wire. Does hole, or even dent in piston = new engine, no matter what?

I suppose two things this tells us for sure - no point in trying to sue NGK and husband didn't improperly install plugs (but I already knew that!).

 

well what does the dog do while you chase squirrels

yes, its toast no matter what.

can you maybe find and get a loose object out of the cylinder? (assuming there even is one in there) and make it usable for a little while longer?

maybe, but then its a ticking time bomb waiting for it to send the piston or a rod through the block and then nothing can be rebuilt anymore and you have to replace the engine instead of repair it. its like asking if you can drive around on a flat tire, sure you "could" but why risk destroying more stuff while doing it.

 

Got it, thanks Keakar. Ya think this helps support faulty fuel injector at #3 as the cause? Only reason I'm chasing that is because I'm thinking our engine guy might charge more for investigating possible causes, since he said more $$$ to clean injectors (I plan to ask him to just replace them, based on your advice). So potentially narrowing down causes on our own might save us some $$$. Don't laugh at us guys - husband is out there right now w/a magnet and vacuum fishing for electrode. Will tell him same end result anyway, then we'll get back to drinking....

 

take a metal coat hanger and wrap duct tape on it backwards (sticky side out) and fold the tip to lock it on, then put tape over the bottom sticky side out.

use it to tap around in there and if it touches it should stick long enough to pull it out. if it gets dirty and stops sticking, replace the tape and try again.

also rotate the engine so that piston is low in the block so its a more direct line to reach all around the piston, if its high you cant reach all the way around very well.

you can also tape a fuel line onto the vacuum hose and try that, it might be enough suction to grab it.

just don't drop more stuff in it trying to fish it out lol.

 

Thanks Keakar! We figure we got nothin' to lose at this point, so why not poke around and see WTF we fish outta there! We'll try this tomorrow, but now it's time for grilled cheese and more beer!!!!!

 

Going back through thread to be sure I retained all the great advice I've gotten on here! We're gonna give this a shot tomorrow too, just to try to satisfy our curiosity as to whether fuel injectors were the culprit more than anything......

 

also I suspect if an injector isn't flowing gas then it will be the filter screen inside it is clogged up. in essence each injector has its own little tiny fuel filter so its easy to see why just one would develop a problem and not a few or even all of them. injectors get plugged up when people don't change fuel filters regularly, at some point a filter cant hold any more and fine sludge like particles go past it which is what clogs the filters in the injectors.

I would say almost all injector issues are because of clogged filters inside them. the injector itself is a very basic simple design that isn't prone to failures but as KD said it can have electrical power supply issues.

just wait until you get the truck back and then you can bench test each injector to see if one is clogged up, you don't want to break anything before the guy works on it and e has to take them off anyways.