ABS on this truck is dangerous...

I left-foot brake. Yup.

 

This would be great if the static friction was the only thing stopping the vehicle when it's already rolling. But it isn't. That scenario would be letting off the gas and coasting to a stop with no brakes applied at all. Which is clearly going to take longer than skidding would. Instead, the main thing stopping the truck is the braking force. Yeah the friction between the tires and the road surface, as well as wind resistance both also come into play, but when the brakes are not locked up the main stopping force is the brakes.

When the brakes areee locked up the whole truck, brakes, and wheels/tires become one rigid body and the only thing stopping the vehicle is the kinetic friction between the tires and the road surface. Again, wind resistance is also a factor but its the same no matter the situation so it's not worth mentioning again.

The issue with ABS on low traction surfaces like ice and snow(not deep enough for piling to be significant) is that the braking force required to lock up the wheels is greatly reduced. Thus, the ABS system has to ease wayyyyyy up on the brakes to avoid a skid. Hence many people saying it feels like the truck just lets off the brakes entirely. This means the stopping distance will most definitely increase compared to a dry surface which is fairly obvious.

Low traction surfaces and locking up the brakes causing a skid will mean you have no steering(ahhhhhh for the average diver) and it means all you have going for you is the friction between your tires and the ice. This too will mean it'll take longer to stop on ice compared to dry roads.

So which ones stops quicker on snow and ice? Good question. Without actually testing it I have no better a guess than anybody else. But theres seems to be plenty of information out there suggesting that ABS will increase the distance required and it is certainly more complex than looking only at the difference between static and kinetic friction.

Just my two cents, feel free to ignore it if you want

 

Too be honest I think a good test driver will always beat ABS with good threshold braking. Threshold braking allows you to take total advantage of the static friction without losing any control due to the tires locking up.

The trick is that ABS requires no thinking in an emergency situation. If you lock the brakes in an emergency and there isn't some snow/sand in your way I doubt there will be much stopping distance difference and you'll have lost the ability to steer out of an accident.

The main point of this thread is that the Tacoma has a messed up ABS system. I agree that after all the complaints I'm sure some trucks are having issues. I would recommend slowing down over completely disabling the system for the reasons listed above.

I was posting that data to show how locking your brakes doesn't increase the amount of force your brakes apply. For some reason a lot of people tend to think that. Locking your brakes will only decrease your stopping distance when a substance piles up in front of the tires. Other than that ABS is usually right there with locking up except you have the ability to steer out of collision. There is a reason why 90% of defensive driving practicums are based on no brake maneuvers. It's because at all speeds you are more often going to be able maneuver to avoid an accident rather than stop before it. Notice I didn't say that's always the case. I'm sure people have died because of ABS, the same way one in a million dies from seat belts, air bags, VSC, etc.

 

Ehhh.. If you were approaching a very icy intersection(no snow piling) at even 5 miles an hour and brake just a hair too much and start to slide you will come to a stop pretty quick just from the fraction of the tires and the ice. But with ABS when you lock up the brakes it has to ease up the braking force to stop the slide and then continue to do this until either the truck stop of the driver eases up on their own. This translates into what people feel as the truck letting go of the brakes completely and basically just roll right on through the intersection until they come to a stop.. Maybe the Tacoma's ABS is stop sensitive, but its pretty evident that on ice the stopping distance with ABS is questionable at best.

 

This is where the proper tires come into play. If you have the snow tires on your truck shouldn't let go like people are describing. I also have a feeling there is something wrong with the early Tacoma ABS because I drive on ice/packed snow all the time and I've never experienced a situation where I felt out of control into an intersection (knock on wood).

Actually, if anything my Tacoma ABS is far superior to the ABS in my 3/4 ton Ram which has ice rated tires (mountain symbol) on it.

I'll also that in some situations ABS isn't going to stop you as fast as locking the brakes. It will keep you from sliding into the stop sign sideways though (I was with my mom when she did this in our first Yukon/Blazer when I was a kid). I think disabling and enabling the ABS is going to probably occur Murphy's law at some point. Right when you need it or don't need it you'll have your truck setup for the opposite situation.

 

and Bingo was his name-O

 

The right snow tire might come into play as far as being able to brake harder before locking up, but once the ABS decides it wants to start pumping the brakes and shoot you through the intersection with no braking force, good tires aren't gonna do a whole lot.

If you were sliding on the other hand, a good tire would stop you even faster.

 

This is where you're losing me. I'd love to test this. I guess I could try tonight if I can find a buddy around and keep pulling the ABS fuse. I don't think it's true, but I've been wrong before.

Also with ABS at no point do you have no braking force. The system won't let the tires lock, that's it. It has to be very smooth ice, which I admit can happen, for you to trigger off ABS to that point in my experience. This is also why I'm glad they sand the roads very well in my area. It's always reduced traction, not no traction.

 

Which part? The stopping faster with a better tire in a slide? Or the tires not making a difference once ABS does it's questionable decision making?

For the better tire in a slide:

I assume that a softer, grippier, more siped and/or studded, dedicated winter tire would have a better interaction with the ice and stop quicker than a harder rubber compound intended for highway driving and longevity. I don't have specific evidence for that, but it seems pretty straight forward.

For the post ABS engagement tire differences:

I can see why there might be some iffy-ness with my statement, but I feel that once ABS kicks in and start pumping the brakes at however many times per second, the difference in tire choice would be negligible only because the truck is constantly going from skidding to rolling so much that the tire isn't fully able to work on its own. If you were to manually pump the brakes say once every second and therefore let the tire slide and then let off to regain control and so on, a dedicated snow tire would perform better because then the tire is able to do whats its meant to do.

EDIT: I said no braking for as a joke I realize the brakes are constantly applied, but since so many people have experienced the brakes letting them roll right into an intersection its as if they had no braking at all.

 

If we agree that during the braking portion of the ABS pulse on ice there is the same amount of braking force as a non ABS tire on ice , can you not visualize how now introducing a rolling period to the ABS braking event would not lengthen the braking distance over the skidding , non ABS tire ?

 

This part lol. I know how a snow tire works. I'm going to try and figure out a way to get someone to film me doing some stops on ice. Might not be tonight but I'm sure I can get to it this week. It won't prove much though unless some other people do it too.

 

Well thats what I figured but wanted to cover all my bases haha

 

BTW like I said, threshold braking will always win out in a contest. IMHO it's not even worth testing that because 90% of people will lock there brakes in an emergency maneuver unless they are literally a professional driver for that specific car. Threshold braking has to be committed to muscle memory to be effective, and quite honestly it's not that way for most drivers even those who practice it.

 

Anyone here have there ABS disconnected or not working all of the time, besides me? Swapped out to non-OEM rear wheel bearings, and I not longer have ABS. As Sterdog has pointed out about threshold braking being the most effective form, I will throw this into the mix. When I had ABS working, it took more pedal pressure to surpass the braking threshold. Now without it, it takes less pressure to surpass it. Same pads and BBK before and after.

 

First gen here, never had ABS to begin with

 

You referring to my comment?

 

Agreed.

 

Hey Alberta Leaf , you never commented on my question ^^^

 

I am not plant based though I do currently reside in Alberta. Question answered.