ABS on this truck is dangerous...

and if there is no traction what happens?

 

There is always traction. There is no such thing as a frictionless surface on earth. Ice always has micro layer water on top of it at the temperature we have (this makes it slippery) and that's what makes it slippery. The water can be "pumped" off using sipes, more sipes usually equals better traction. So winter tires always have a fair bit of traction on ice because they are literally using the cohesive force of the water on the ice and an increased contact patch to stop the vehicle.

 

Always? You're sure? I beg to differ.

 

When you slide on an ice surface do you slide forever? Nope. It's friction with the ice (and some with the air) that slows you down. Even a cushion of air has friction. There is some evidence that certain supercooled fluids have no friction, but they occur at over -200 K and cannot exist on earth without artificial means.

Sorry to get off topic, but that I know for sure. It's one of the first things you learn when you talk about friction and physics.

 

I appreciate what you're saying. Perhaps time and distance (or lack thereof) may be playing a factor in the ABS issue.

 

Gravity works every time I hear, too.

 

Yup lol. Agreed. I think though it'd be interesting to take some of the vehicles are having ABS issues and put a set of good studded winter tires in a stock size on them. I bet it would solve a lot of the issues. Then again, I also understand that tires aren't free and that the ABS on the Tacoma should work better than it does anyways.

Like I said earlier, my gut feeling is that Murphys law will prevail with the people who disable and enable there ABS in on road situations. If I disabled my ABS I'd probably hit something tomorrow that I could of easily avoided with ABS functioning.

 

My issue is not with accident avoidance. My issue is wanting the wheels to stop rotating on glare ice especially with a touch of gravity behind you while staring at... lets use an example of train crossing signal arms in the down position getting closer and the vehicle won't stop.

 

I'd counter that if you drive your Tacoma defensively around intersections and other such hazardous areas you won't have to deal with that sort of problem. Or at the very least you'd have time to choose the ditch over the tracks.

Again, I'm not arguing that the Tacoma doesn't have an ABS problem especially with pre 09 trucks. I'm just suggesting that there isn't as big a difference in stopping difference between ABS and non ABS as you think, so you may as well take the system that lets you dodge as well as stop.

 

Not the issue I'm speaking of and honestly in the 4 plus years I've owned my Taco I have had no issue the ABS but if the conditions are just right....it just may get someone killed (although the stories of people who believe and may be so) that ABS has saved their lives is very entertaining.

 

ABS can save your life if you outmaneuver an accident. Often this happens when someone is heading for the ditch and the manage to steer out using the ABS and/or VSC depending on the scenario. I can personally say the VSC helped me avoid a very serious accident once at highway speeds.

If you die because you slid into an intersection I'd conjecture that you actually died from not driving for the conditions, but maybe I'm the only one who slows down on ice way before intersections.

 

The Tacoma ABS system aside...

A higher coefficient of friction will ALWAYS decrease stopping distance, and the static coefficient of any object is always greater than the kinetic, with the exception if the surface has the ability to pile as mentioned before. A rolling tire is static a sliding tire is kinetic.

When an objects state changes from static to kinetic it accelerates. This is why in racing, when cornering hard, if a driver exceeds the slip angle the rear end breaks free resulting in a spin as the rear tires now have a lower coefficient of friction than the front resulting in the rear end accelerating past the front of the vehicle.

A vehicle utilizing perfect threshold breaking (not introducing any sliding and on a surface that does not pile) will always stop shorter than if the wheels are locked up and the vehicle is skidding, this is pure physics.

The average person can not properly execute threshold breaking under ideal conditions let alone in an emergency, this is where ABS comes in. As its name implies it attempts to prevent the brakes from locking and keeping the friction coefficient static. Most people when confronted with an emergency stopping situation mash the brake pedal.

Is ABS perfect? No. Is it better than sliding. Yes. Has it decreased the number of vehicle collisions? I don't have the statistics on that but would venture to say it has. Will it allow you to stop sooner than a professional driver without ABS? Probably not. Are there people that can break more efficiently without than with ABS. Sure. Are they the majority? Absolutely not!

ABS (except in the non-Off Road Tacomas) for the win.

Everyone arguing here is (situationally) correct... except those who think sliding tires have more friction than rolling tires, all of you are wrong.

 

THAT LAST LINE, DON'T SAY IT

 

It's a fact that ABS increases stopping distances on low traction surfaces

 

It's a fact that facts stated on the internet are facts.

I like the idea of gathering a few Tacoma's and testing different tire, model year, assembly and weight considerations. This is a Toyota Tacoma ABS problem. Not an ABS problem.

 

I agree but again, those are not the conditions (excessive speed) I'm referring to; in fact just the opposite.

 

You don't trust that Transport Canada did a bit of research ?

 

I've been in government owned skid cars. ABS is a win on them. They are even willing to show you.

Cool side note, with non ABS vehicles the RCMP can tell exactly how fast you were going into an accident no matter what rubber. Even on ice. With ABS, they can't tell strictly by looking. That leads me to believe two things. No ABS system is the same and ABS can have a varying degree of traction depending on the rubber.

You're statement on low friction surfaces is too generic and it doesn't specify against what. Against threshold braking with a pro driver? Absolutely. Against the average North American who will hammer the brakes and steer in the direction of there flinch. I really don't think so. Plus there's that whole steering thing. When you slide sideways into an accident at 40 mph you either roll a few times or your car hits something on it's weakest portions.

If I lived on the coast and had mostly snow covered gravel to drive I'd consider disabling the ABS too. I drive a fair bit of highspeed pavement, so I'm not going to dick around with my ABS that happens to be working fine for me.

 

Bosch

"Does ABS shorten the braking distance?
In most cases the braking distance is shorter with ABS than without ABS. One exception is in the case of roads with a loose surface such as sand or gravel. Here, without ABS, wheels which lock create a wedge of material under them. This wedge can lead to a reduction in the braking distance. But beware: in this situation, the vehicle without ABS can no longer be steered!"

http://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/media/en/ubk_europe/specials/abs/pdf_1/abs_brochure_de.pdf

Wiki

ABS generally offers improved vehicle control and decreases stopping distances on dry and slippery surfaces for many drivers; however, on loose gravel or snow-covered surfaces, ABS can significantly increase braking distance, although still improving vehicle control.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

Transport Canada

Is the stopping distance shorter with ABS?
No! From early commercials, it may have looked like you could stop on a dime. That instantaneous stop is not realistic. When braking on dry or wet roads your stopping distance will be about the same as with conventional brakes.

You should allow for a longer stopping distance with ABS than for conventional brakes when driving on gravel, slush, and snow. This is because the rotating tire will stay on top of this low traction road surface covering, and effectively "float" on this boundary layer.

A non ABS braked vehicle can lock its tires and create a snow plow effect in front of the tires which helps slow the vehicle. These locked tires can often find more traction below this boundary layer.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp13082-abs2_e-215.htm

 

We've already discussed the piling effect of certain materials. Thanks for agreeing with me on that for, oh, about the tenth time. Most of the gravel in my area isn't crush anymore, the rains have been heavy in the last few years so it's nearly as hard as pavement.