SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

After reading this whole thread I really wish you just did a used engine swap..lol. Good luck and I enjoy watching the OP turn into a self taught mechanic.

 

How do you know if you have that? What is it exactly? It's not automatically something you have if your truck's a TRD is it? We bought the truck w/70,000, so its possible previous owner could have added that, right? Does SC mean you have that extra injector? Found a few Toyota forum threads where guys were talking about having SC and having some fuel system issues, so just curious if there's some obvious way of knowing if your truck has that. Thanks guys. Apologies if this is a dumb question.

Thanks for the encouragement C3 rolling!

 

Been saying that from the start, sure been a helluva lot cheaper than 6k too....

 

I know, it would have been cheaper for sure. It was a tough decision, and I certainly have moments where I wonder if we did the right thing. As I read/learn about all the different parts on the truck, I am realizing more and more just how many critical pieces there are to it that have lots of years and miles and abuse on them, and therefore even when the engine, fuel, evap stuff is all taken care of, then all the wheel bearing, rack & pinion, shocks/struts stuff is done, we won't be done - things will keep falling apart, and we'll have to keep patching 'em back together, cuz we chose to fix instead of replace Taco. But even where we are now, I still think all factors considered, this was the LEAST SHITTY option for us - none of them were good options really. As far as doing the used route, it's one thing to sit on the computer and teach myself stuff about how our truck works; it's another to actually get out there in the wet gravel driveway and do the work and pray that you are doing it correctly. And if we'd paid a mechanic to swap in a used engine for us, we'd have been at $2-3K plus when all was said and done, PLUS the additional costs for diagnosing/repairing whatever this fuel/evap problem is now. So we felt like, if we're gonna spend that much, may as well spend $2K more on a reman'd engine, and take away some of the "hopefully we got a good one" dynamic that would have come w/a used one. And with replacing Taco, well, I am doubtful about whether we ruled that option out too quickly - but we had to choose quickly, to get back to having a 2nd working vehicle, and shopping for a very specific kind of truck for a reasonable price takes time. So overall, I don't regret the path we chose - just wish it would conclude soon - and conclude in a good way!!!!!

I think I just answered my own question about the supercharger thing - wikipedia's page on tacos says it was an option to add to '05-'13 tacos - and that's not us. It's still a little confusing though, cuz in their 1st gen taco description, they state: "The aftermarket TRD supercharged 3.4L V6 produced 254 bhp (189 kW) and 270 lb·ft (366 N·m)." What do they mean by supercharged? In the section about adding the supercharger feature, they say: "Toyota Racing Development offers a TRD supercharger for the FJ Cruiser and Tacoma equipped with 4.0-liter V6 engine, available through Toyota dealerships. The supercharger increases the Tacoma's power output to 304 hp (227 kW) from the original 236 hp (176 kW), and the torque output to 334 lb·ft (453 N·m)." Obviously the 3.4L vs. 4.0L and HP is different. Don't know why they say "supercharged" on the regular taco though. Anyone know?

 

With the mileage on your truck theres no way I would have put 6k in a "new" engine...
The problem with yours wasnt the engine itself- they dont just burn holes in pistons for no reason- id would say your start issue has something to do with the lean condition that caused all your problems to begin with. Now you have 6k in a brand new motor and are still chasing problems... I know my pockets arent that deep, and if I had a vehicle that needed 6k+ in repairs I would have cut my losses and found another truck- but thats just me.
If you could have found a low mileage used engine you would have gotten 90% of the fuel system with it and potentially wouldnt be dealing with the problem your having now.
Im 100% confident you could have done a 100k engine with new gaskets/seals/tb/wp for under 2k start to finish- prob $1500 if you hubby and neighbor did the swap.
not trying to rain on your parade but I'm just saying that's my thoughts on it.

 

Parade? What parade. There's no parade happening over here. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

Ridiculous. No guarantee what condition the internals of even a low mileage used engine would've been like. OP, could've spent 75% of the cost of a rebuild to get a shitty engine from a junkyard only to have been back at step 1 in a few months or few thousand miles. This motor, assuming it was properly rebuilt with quality components can go literally hundreds of thousands of miles with proper care. In effect, its a brand new engine.

OP, this is a Tacoma, not a space shuttle. A good competent mechanic will be able to pinpoint and diagnose your issue without too much trouble. Have some faith in your guy and let him do his work. I bet he finds the issue and you're on your merry way in no time, without too much additional cost.

Also, there is a right way to do things and a cheap, lazy, hack way to do things. In this case, if OP wants to keep the truck for another decade, the best approach was to have the engine rebuilt properly by a competent technician, which she seems to have done. In the long run it will be cheaper and pay dividends.

$6K (rebuild) +$1K (diagnosis of fuel issue and replacement of parts) < $3K for crap shoot motor + additional $3K if crap shoot motor turns out to be junk + 6K to rebuild motor that you should've done in the first place.

 

im not saying I know anything about super chargers but....

short answer, is they are forced air induction, you either have a clam shell pump on the air intake or you don't and even though you don't have one you can add one if you ever choose to. it is just the new tech version of the older engines with blowers on them.

it often uses an exhaust driven pump to turn the blower which forces more air into the engine to produce more power and then everything else is adjusted (bigger fuel lines, computer reprogramed) to dump more gas in to go along with more air and as a result.

AFAIK trucks that come with turbo on them usually (but not always) are set up to run higher fuel pressures because of the extra fuel demands.

this is how your truck will act with one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VWGF1JoA7Q

this explains them in detail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGdg2Fd2WQY

and here is some learning info on how to install them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKgKtMXec8

 

Picking up now!!!! It was the idle air control valve - it was stuck, so they took it off and cleaned/lubed it - no charge!!!!!!!!! OMG I am crying tears of joy right now you guys.......hit an all time low this morning, it just all got to me all of a sudden. Asked him again about the fuel pressure/pump, he assured me it's good.

Side note as to why I am overjoyed w/relief - found some photos a few days ago of the underside of Taco, from when my husband did the center support bearing repair in 2012 - to me, it looked like there were rust holes/corrosion on the underside of the truck. Pulled out the extended warranty paperwork on frame rust we'd received from Toyota a few years ago which we barely glanced at when received, and realized we were ~1 year past the date for it. Have been silently freaking out about that too - couldn't bring myself to even mention it on here/ask for opinions of photos, out of embarrassment that we might have overlooked something that critical in making an intelligent decision about replacing engine. Husband kept saying it's fine, what you're seeing in photo is normal. This morning, started thinking about that, then read/looked at photos on the web about others w/Taco frame rust issues and how dangerous that can be, causing truck to buckle. Finally got myself so freaked out that I called mechanic, near tears, not even caring whether he'd identified hot soak starts issue, just to ask his opinion on rust. HE SAID LOOKS FINE, NO WORRIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tears of pure panic/fear instantly turned to tears of joy.....good grief, what a whirlwind this has been!!!!!!!!!!!!! He proceeded to tell me how we've been some of the nicest customers he's ever worked with, bringing cookies/cinnamon rolls, being understanding about having an issue w/Taco after engine swap, etc............wow, I've never in my life gone from such a low to such a high so quickly!!!!!!!!! Gonna go pick her up now!!! Thanks for the support Taco World buddies!!!

 

well stop at the store and get some moonshine, time to make that apple pie recipe

 

Hmmm? Seems I saw that suggested somewhere in this thread.

 

Couldve sold the truck for 2k easily and put the 7k down on something else... Idk where your at but 9k would buy a damn nice first gen here or even a second gen if you have time to look.
Honestly in my eyes putting a brand new engine in a 200000 mile vehicle is a crap shoot as well.
I've installed countless junkyard motors and I've only had a problem with one or two. I've always taken the oil pan off and I usually do head gaskets and all the other good stuff before I install one, on the two engines that I did have a problem with they were both found before the install was started.
if you go to a local salvage yard and you see the car if the engine is coming out of you check the mileage you check the coolant if generally the car looks like it was taken care of you're probably going to be in good shape but whatever man its spending thousands of dollars get you peace of mind -to each his own...

 

well guys the thing you need to remember is, she knew this and made the decision (a tough one) that this was her baby, her child, and come hell or high water she was not going to let it die or let it go so.... it is what it is. we have told her many times there were cheaper solutions but she wanted the long term picture not the cheapest fix.

after sticker shock wears off she will not regret it but now her mind is still all over the place with getting hit with look at this and look at that and its not running right OMG!

we have almost gone 450 posts here and I bet 150 of em said to just swap with a salvage yard engine but she accepted our advice, thought about what to do, and didn't rush into anything before deciding to rebuild it so what any of us would have done isn't important because she knew she was spending more then she should but it was for a member of the family to survive so in her mind it was worth it.

right near me (if I want to go there and bring everything I need to get it running and start it up) I can get running complete engine with no warranty from wrecked truck (if I take it out myself) for $125 + $45 core charge http://www.pullapart.com/parts/pricing.aspx?letter=E&loc=14&nodeId=1139&#pricelist and for around $500 I can get motors I can hear still running from a few salvage yards that might be less risky because they will have a 30 or 90 day exchange only warranty

 

Yep, kept thinking, forgot to give props to Koditten for the right call in last post!!

Just got home - starting normally, I think. Certainly not a long hesitation when we started 'er up to leave there, but not an instant start either. Pulled over next to husband just outside parking lot, shut off, then we both listened to restarting Taco. Again, not a long hesitation - seems like it's normal starting time, and I sure as shit want to believe it is. Ultimately husband said head for home, he had to head back to work, and if still funny stuff, he's gonna look at tonight/later this week. Hopefully this long road is over, but guess what? You'll see more panicked posts from me in the next several days if not. Gonna drive my 4 legged kid to the park for the first time in many weeks now (so I can chase squirrels while she watches - right Keakar? )

Thanks guys!

 

Final total (assuming we're at the FINAL total - knock on wood) wound up being ~$5800. $400 of that was AFR gauge & install, and ~$1K of that was cleaning 6 injectors, plus parts & labor to replace 2 injectors, FPR, fuel filter, power steering pump/drive belts - parts that I assume would have been hit or miss as to whether they were included w/a used engine. And our engine included brand new OEM timing belt, OEM water pump, and a bunch of other crap that I can't remember but sounded important - how's that for a technical description? The actual engine and labor on the engine swap was $4450. I doubt $4450 would have bought a truck that had all the features we would have wanted that our Taco has - V6 TRD Off Road, xtra cab, 4x4, automatic, black color - with significantly less miles/less years on it, especially if we needed it in a short time period. We did look a bit, and were finding Tacos with way MORE miles than ours has, going for way more than $4450. What we did find that would have been a worthwhile step up in terms of significantly lower miles/younger in years/most or all of the features we wanted was ~$20K, which just wasn't doable for us right now. So assuming we don't have to dump thousands more into the cause of the engine problem and potential issues associated with the replacement of the engine, I think we did the right thing - for our situation. And like Keakar said, that's all that matters, right? Plus, as Moco mentioned, it's a Tacoma, not a space shuttle. Husband got a big kick out of that analogy! He's the optimistic, carefree one, I'm the worrier - you know, just in case that wasn't obvious to you guys by now! : )

 

One final note - I looked at photo that freaked me out about rust w/husband just before we left to pick Taco up, and I'm guessing you guys will get a laugh out of this. Granted, it will be at my expense, but hey, it's the least I can do to return the favor of all the help you've given us the past 6 weeks! So here it is -

He said the many "rust" holes I thought I was seeing on the frame in that scary photo are actually mounting bolt holes for people who want to attach a running boards.

Ooops. Best ooops ever though!!!!!!!!

 

most all old vehicles have a good bit of surface rust but for the most part everything is still solid and strong but there are exceptions.

this is frame rust worth being concerned about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBxn5EERdwg

 

Thanks Keakar. Honestly, now that I know what those stupid holes are, I don't think we have any rust, or if we do, it's very minimal - nowhere in the ballpark of that video.

 

Congrats OP, you made the right decision. Enjoy your truck into your old age. Guarantee you if you keep up with basic maintenance it will still be ticking away after trucks being sold today end up in the wrecking yard.

 

You both have good points, but...

remember, OP is paying someone to do the labor at $100/hr. You guys are doing a lot of the leg work and not taking into account the perspective OP is coming from.