SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Just called the Oklahoma place that my buddy suggested, and explained our situation...

 

Asked them if what my buddy said was true, about if the other guys used a service that uses crap chemicals, is it possible our injectors are permanently destroyed, and would there be some way of finding that out through testing/cleaning/whatever, and they said yes!

 

Asked him if any reputable injector place would be able to do this. He said, "well, I don't really study our competition, but there is a place called DOCTOR INJECTOR that does great work and would definitely be able to do this, because they are so thorough in their work, and we do business with them." Guess where our mechanic is taking our injectors?



EDIT: I thanked him profusely for his time, explained we won't be using his services because we want to do whatever our angel of a new mechanic says, but that I would tell all of my family and friends to send their injectors to their business: http://www.okinjectors.com/my-website#!__my-website

Also told him I'm on a Toyota forum and would speak VERY HIGHLY of them on the forum. He thanked me. Send your injectors to these guys TW!!!!

 

Docinjector is good Jen. He used to be down on airport way,,by the Jubitz truck stop, then he moved to Gladstone. Know of him and his work,,never had any work done for me. He started out doing Diesel injectors and pumps,,because that's where the money WAS. No so much any more. A hotrodder who cares,,and local.

 

Question - I assume this is what our new mechanic was doing yesterday when he used his Snap On fancy tool to pressurize our fuel system when we arrived and could hear the fuel pump whining. Is that correct?

If we'd done this before, would it have proven that our pump was OK, or no? Surely there's a reason that people use a gauge to check fuel pressure rather than just doing this instead, so I'm assuming this only proves the pump is getting power, but doesn't tell you quite enough to prove its overall function or something? Just curious........

 

YAY!!!!!! LOVE THIS!!!!!!!!! That's 3 positive votes for him, hurray!!

Thanks Mod!!

 

Jumper-testing this will only show if the pump operates, UNLESS you have a fuel gauge connected and can measure the pressure. Pressure is of course not the ONLY thing with a fuel pump. Flow is another matter. You can have all the pressure in the world, but if you can't flow enough volume, then your pump is still bad. So using a jumper-test can allow a technician to test operation, flow, and pressure, if using the correct tools.

 

^^what this fellow said.

The pump SHOULD have been flow tested and pressure checked and stamped ok before it was put in the box for resale. The pump is in and buttoned up, Lets hope so for now and wait on the injector report.

Hurry up and wait,,sucks.

 

Ah. I think I understand this. So jumper testing and measuring pressure with a gauge at the same time would tell you *for sure* if your pump was OK? Or would you need to also do a third thing at the same time to check flow?

Damn, this stuff is seriously complex! Thanks for educating me Bama!

 

YES! Hurray up and wait, the story of my life for the past 57 days. And I'm not a patient person in the first place! C'mon INJECTOR DOC!!!! It's all coming down to you man!!!

 

You connects a pressure gauge to check pressure. Then you disconnect the line completely and get a fluid measuring device to put the open end into. You energize the fuel pump for the recommended time in the service manual (usually 30 seconds) and measure how much fuel comes out in that amount of time. Next you compare that to the chart of flow rates for the vehicle.

 

Got it, I can visualize this, thanks for the watered down explanation Bama! You lurned me sumthin valubul!!

Really, thank you so much!

EDIT: just checked out those links for injectors that you so kindly tracked down for me, thank you!!! You just put another worry to rest for me, should we need to scramble to find replacement injectors, we know what to do!!

EDIT #2: HA HA HA. Just called the dealer, cuz I enjoy the shock value. $212.43 per injector. That will NOT be happening for sure.....

EDIT #3: Does this Amazon link look like they are brand new OEMs? It says "set" but when you read the fine print it's only 1 of them for ~$150. If we needed to only replace one, I'd consider spending the extra to buy a brand new OEM. I don't see anything that says they are reman'd and the price certainly spells brand new. But how can you know for sure?

Toyota 23209-62030 Fuel Injector Assy

http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Toyota-23209-62030-Fuel-Injector/dp/B00GHK8SJ2/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1422210628&vehicle=1998-76-1037-968-63-32--8-4793-1906-8-1--210-1-0&sr=1-2&ymm=1998%3Atoyota%3Atacoma&keywords=fuel+injectors

EDIT # 4: I wish I knew where the engine guys sent our injectors. Thinking about calling/emailing them to ask, but not sure if I'd get a straight answer, or if it's even worth the weirdness of dealing with it......at least yet. It will be dealt with at some point, but hoping to have ALL the facts before we "go there"

 

Pressure is all that needs to be monitored. The key is monitoring at the correct time, duration and condition for the specific results desired. This comes back to "proper diagnostics by a proper diagnostician". Insufficient flow will show up as a drop in pressure when the engine is at maximum output, of course this will require the pressure gauge to be visible (in the cab) while operating the truck at "spirited" levels.

I have never seen a "flow test" or a Toyota published "flow rate" for Tacos. If one exists I would like to see it.

 

Is that something that the ECU has a PID for? (fuel pressure I mean)

So that it can be observed via a scanguage or torque app or the like?

 

Unfortunately no, we are stuck with physically installing a pressure gauge, temporary or permanent.

Edit, don't know about second gens, yet.

 

It is not posted. This is why there have been a few overdone arguments in the S/C forum about whether the stock fuel pump is enough to supply certain mods.

 

Yep, a gauge showing pressure drop at high demand is how Gadget first confirmed insufficient fuel supply issues with the SC.
Edit, this was back in the day, with 1st gens. I haven't followed the issue much with 2nd gens.

 

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/360

Is this what Bama was talking about?

EDIT: Wow, this forum has tons of people that have the exact same hard warm starts issue. http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/2143825/wont-re-start-when-hot-on-warm-days-95-toyota-tacoma

Some said cleaning the MAF worked for them, but the engine mechanic said he did this already. Maybe I should ask our new mechanic to double check......

Otherwise, a lot of them seemed to continue struggling with it, and there really wasn't a final OP resolution posted.....although at least it's nice to know we're not the only ones with the issue. What struck me was that most seemed to have a Taco with higher miles when the issue started, which surely means something....

MAF guy: "So I just found the culprit to my truck's problem. Same as above, would not start in hot weather once the engine was warmed up unless I disconnected the air temperature sensor (which works because i tested its resistance). First the check engine light has been on for years so I took it to see what it was saying was wrong. It had two faults. First was the air temperature sensor which I tested again and again it works fine.

Second the computer said the engine was running very lean. Checked all the vacuum hoses and all was good, next I pulled out the mass flow air sensor and right then and there I found the culprit. It had dirt all over the leading sensor built up about 1mm. Cleaned it with a can of solvent (specifically for mass air flow sensor) and reset the check engine light. Now it starts every time and runs better that it did before. Starts perfect in hot weather. Easy fix and did not need to buy any new parts. Not saying it is the same for everyone as many different symptoms have different causation...but worked for me"

 

I disagree. I have ran into NUMEROUS bad fuel pumps that were capable of passing a pressure test, but were failing on fuel pump flow. If we want to really get technical, when I diagnose potential fuel pump failures I will measure several things:

• Static fuel pressure
• Dynamic fuel pressure
• WOT fuel pressure response
• Flow rate cold
• Flow rate hot
• Current flow cold
• Current flow hot
• "Snap" response

Yes, that is capable of running a flow test in that link. Using that setup you can also test pump break-off pressure, which is the amount of pressure drop off you can create where the fuel pump is no longer capable of supplying sufficient pressure for engine operation. It is a difficult test to perform because you have to have a VERY fine control on the pressure relief button.