SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Thanks DP!! Will check this out in our FSM and see what I find.....appreciate it buddy!

EDIT, CUZ DP LOVES THE EDITS : Might take me a bit to unearth what I'm looking for in that darn FSM. It's a real bear to track info down with 50 trillion different files inside files inside files. Husband's s'posed to be printing a copy any day now, hoping that will make it easier to find stuff....

EDIT #2, CUZ DP REALLY LOVES THE EDITS: It definitely is a 1998 FSM though, I know that for sure.....

 

I found these, not sure if this is what we're after though....will reread your post and keep looking......

 

More EVAP files.....

 

Sorry for so many files, not completely sure what I'm looking for (in case that isn't obvious )

 

Thank you to anyone who looks at these!!!

DP, are you regretting bringing this topic up yet?

 

On the plus side, I always wondered wich way that VSV valve flowed when voltage was applied. I learned something, so you efforts are not wasted.

 

Excellent! Wait, mine or DP's? Either way, excellent!

Just had a thought, gonna call the parts dept and ask how much for a new EGR valve and FPR VSV, let them figure out if we have it!

 

I only brought it up to keep your mind busy. Just kidding. The section on the fuel pressure regulator would be the one to find and any notes as to applications to specific models, sorry. Probably in the SFI 5VZ section.

 

I just found this tech. serv. bul. for the 03-04. Basicaly the trucks can have hard starts if there is poor grounding. If there is a ground loose on your truck, you could have hard starts. Could one of the grounds be loosing contact as the truck cools down? I dunno.

Bulletin
TSB2116

Issue Date
October 12, 2004

Market
Canada

Title
INTERMITTENT EXTENDED OR "HARD" CRANKING

Component
ENGINE ELECTRICAL

Models
'03 - '04 Tacoma (V6)

Some 2003 -- 2004 model year Tacoma (V6) vehicles may experience an intermittent extended or "hard" engine cranking at startup. A revised engine wire harness and ground point relocation is required to correct this condition.
APPLICABLE VEHICLES: -2003 - 2004 model year Tacoma vehicles equipped with 5VZ-FE (V6) engines. </B>
I goes on to tell you that they have an additional ground wire that can be installed to cure the hard start issue. I'll be honest, still tossing darts here.

 

Well, it worked, so I still appreciate it!

Apparently we DO have an EGR valve, which I've been told by several people that we don't. We also have a VSV, an EGR Gas Temp Sensor, and a charcoal canister (but I already knew the last one!)

Of course the prices on all are astronomical, so not going to waste time posting those. BUT, I now know we have all that, so I'm feeling purty proud of my shortcut method to finding that out. Go me!!

And, got the dealer MAF price shock over with that I'd planned to take care of, and it was only a minor heart attack - $197, not bad!

Looking for the files you just mentioned now DP, hell, it keeps me busy anyway!

 

Thank you!! Keep tossing, eventually we'll get a bulls eye here guys!

Emailing this to my husband now. Also, wanted to let you know I emailed him your thoughts on the timing question from this morning, and he was grateful to cross another theory off the list. If by no other means, eventually we'll get to the bottom of this through process of elimination, right?

 

Pulldo, wanted to also let you know I emailed my husband your post, and he replied: "i like his thinking...here are the specs from our manual. this was part of the evap testing i was gonna try right before we turned it over to our mechanic."

Thanks man! Nice to feel like we have some next logical steps to go after if we get our usual disappointment result on the injectors. Plus, keeps me from stalking the mechanic.....

DP, emailed husband your stuff too, no reply to that yet. Guess he disagrees with your theory? JK! Yesterday when I posted the injector results, he goes, DP WILL SURELY HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THESE, I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT HE THINKS! No pressure though DP! : )

 

DP, is this the right file?

 

This is what I was leading to lovemytaco, if yours has the vsv for your fpr,,,, now this is just an idea, the next time you have a "hot" start try, have your little jumper wires ready, first try to start, which it shouldn't because of your problem, then when it doesn't have the hubby hook up the little jumper wire from the battery to the plug on the fuel pressure reg.'s vsv, of course make sure you unplug it from the ecm wiring and hook directly to the two terminals on top of the vsv, at least that's where mine are at, you should hear an audible click when the vsv turns on or energizes however you want to say it. Then jump in the truck and see if it'll fire up like it should.

Just an idea, this is what I did on mine, and it worked, then I've left it alone, haven't pursued it anymore. I'm just an old wore out welder so take this for what it's worth, it's free anyway,,, but I don't know if they, Toyota, changed your year model up from my year, hence the call for the real mechanics that are privy to this info.

Back to mine, I haven't figured out if the vsv is grounding though the ecm like it's suppose to, the feed to it is actually hot and it just lets the ecm take it to ground to turn it on. That's when I left it alone and moved on, I'll go back to it later and hopefully figure out how to check that circuit through the ecm,,

 

Thank you!! Will forward this to hubby right away! Sounds easy enough to check, so why the heck not at this point! Thank you!

 

Oh boy. Just called the parts guy back.

Asked him to clarify on the VSV he quoted me on, to see whether his diagram/parts listings showed it being related to FPR - he said nope, sorry, he told me the wrong info earlier, he is finding that 98 and newer do not have the VSV associated w/FPR. From my understanding, sounds like that eliminates pulldo's theory, right?

The big heart attack was the MAF. Remember how my recent post was all yippy skippy about his quoting $197 on MAF? I asked him whether that included the Intake Air Temp sensor, because my understanding is that it's inside the MAF. He asked me for our VIN #, because he said there was a split in the production in 98. Then, he told me rather than having an MAF sensor and an IAT sensor, instead we have an Intake Airflow Meter Assembly, and the price for a new one of those is........

sit down.......or kneel, and start praying we don't wind up needing this.....

$1048

On the plus side, while I had him on the phone, I got a quote on a crank sensor, since that's a term that has been thrown around here and there in relation to our issue. $197. Ah, that's better.

EDIT: Just pulled up a document in our FSM that shows a diagram of a "mass airflow meter" - either this is another case of multiple names for the same part, or what we thought was the correct FSM for our truck actually isn't, due to the split in production thing. Good grief, can't they have one method of assembling this stuff for more than a 5 minute period???

EDIT #2: I promise, even though I'm having a pricing heart attack, I'm not flipping out. So other thoughts and ideas are welcome, lay 'em on me!

 

K, how would we look for this? I threw the ground wire thing out to the mechanic, and he said he looked for that and didn't see any issues. Are there a bunch of different ground wires? Are they super hard to get to, to see their condition? I believe what he's saying, just curious if maybe it's possible that one could be overlooked or tough to see......plus I really want it to be something cheap like this......

 

Feel free to laugh at me here. I have been suspecting the MAF as a possible failure, but with things being as busy for me as they have been, I just too the RAV4 to the local Toyota dealer and paid for the diagnosis.

This is totally a wives tale. After doing a timing belt it doesn't matter WHAT cylinder is at TDC when you first go to crank it. The computer uses the crankshaft sensor to tell it when each cylinder is at TDC, and it uses the CMP sensor to determine when each cylinder is at compression stroke. (well, not EACH cylinder, but it keys up off a variable tooth and then counts teeth as they rotate after that. Either way, it doesn't matter what position the engine is in after you finish installing the belt when you go to crank it.

Not ME getting slammed. That was Babytruck! SHE was talking about getting slammed. Hahaha.

He isn't just blowing smoke up your ass, he is feeding you the whole cigar there! Not sure WTF he is talking about, but your MAF sensor, which includes the IAT sensor, can be bought all day long in the aftermarket for less than $100. What they nail you on is they force you to buy the ENTIRE HOUSING, which can cost close to $500 or more. You can buy just the sensor and swap it out for much cheaper.

 

Laugh at you?!??! No way man! So, any idea how the dealer found it was faulty? Tell them to forward their exact notes to lovemytacolots, I'm sure they'll be up for it, dontcha think?

Ah, Haynes/Chilton strike again on the timing thing, pretty sure that's where hubby got that idea....that's now multiple votes saying no way, so for sure crossing that off, thanks.

Sweet, so sounds like you'll take the heat from K's wife then, right? You da man Bama!

LOVE your comments about the whole MAF thing. Heart attack will now conclude. Also, I think that may be the first time I've seen you say WTF, at least on this thread, and I gotta say, I really enjoyed it! Thanks as always Bama!

 

Yep, if you had the VSV FPR the diagram would look like this.

As far as your truck goes yes. I did not see it (FPR VSV) in your pic. Also I don't see any EGR stuff. There is a fair amount of "stuff" associated with an EGR system and it's not in your pics, that I can see. Remember, I don't just make this stuff up . This is why I was stressing the applications involved. Check out the box at the lower right of the diagram above. It says W/EGR, this implies that not all models have it. The EGR system may be on the 2wd but not the 4wd etc etc.

Mr Bama is spot on with the "assembly" and $$ thing. And just like he said they can "test" good and still not be up to snuff.

About the injector report. I can see the combination of pattern, flow and leaking potentially being enough to be enough to cause your problem. Knocks on wood.