Toyota Tacoma Diesel Not Worth it Says Chief Engineer

How are you so sure? Two of Toyota's biggest competitors already confirmed diesels so who knows what Toyota is really thinking. There is no way that they aren't at least kicking the idea around behind closed doors. But at least Tacoma buyers will be able to drive a comparable diesel powered truck in the GM twins and Frontier. And actually see some real tests, reviews, and actual mpgs here in the USA.

I think some people will come out very impressed in how a diesel performs.

 

These motors haven't been used in the F-series since 2010.

The 5.0, 6.2 and Ecoboost are all quicker than the diesel. With a simple $400 tuner, the Ecoboost is in the mid 13 second 1/4 mile.

 

Have you asked them? My point is neither I nor you know for CERTAIN if there are enough Tacoma owners, or potential owners, to warrant a diesel option. The people at corporate do their homework. They have survey after survey, and listen to what is being asked. And if they don't see a substantial profit margin for a diesel option, then they will decide not to produce one. And they have not decided to produce one. So to me, it seems that they did not see enough of an interest in a diesel to warrant the cost of production.

 

I haven't driven anything with the ecoboost engines.

 

I don't think there is a big market for diesel here. Gas technology has also come a long way. For example, the current GMC V6 gets 285 hp and over 300 ft-lbs of torque with gas, gets 1-2 mpg better than my Tacoma V6, and is rated to tow 7000 lbs and haul 1800 lbs in the base configuration, cheapest model. That is far more capable and efficient than my old (2004) GMC with a V8. A properly configured new gasoline-powered Ford can do even more. The reality is that most people who own truck don't tow anything, let alone 7000 lbs, and certainly don't need the 500+ ft-lbs of torque a diesel can provide. Couple that with high up-front and maintenance costs and the fact that in some states (mine included), diesel costs 25% - 35% more than gasoline (we are currently at $2.30/gal for gas and about $3.15/gal for diesel), diesel makes absolutely no sense for the majority of truck owners. Diesel in a smaller truck like a Tacoma is even more of a niche that is unlikely to have much market potential.

On another note, my wife is from Europe, and I have spent a good deal of time there. Small turbo-diesels with manual transmissions rule there, and are super efficient with good power. However, many European countries keep taxes low on diesel to promote its use and fuel efficiency, and it is cheaper than gasoline. Government policies play a huge role here.

 

I saw what you did there.....

 

It wouldn't surprise me if toyota is just gonna sit back for a couple years and gauge their competitors diesel sales, and then determine whether or not it is a viable market strategy, because I agree, everyone wants a diesel, but who's actually going to pull the trigger? If I lived outside of the US I would own a diesel in a heartbeat, but inside of the US it becomes cost prohibitive because of all the epa BS.

 

People don't want a diesel because they've been given a bad name due to the BRODOZERS out there blowing black smoke everywhere.

99% of the people assume a diesel blows black smoke ALL THE TIME
99% of the people think diesels are loud and obnoxious - not anymore with new technology
99% of people think its worst emissions - WRONG
99% of people don't understand a diesel can run 1 million miles
99% of people ignorant when it comes to a diesel.

I sure would never want to own a vehicle that gets way better fuel mileage, way better reliability, and way more power. Would you? That'd be stupid.

 

These things are not always true. Some diesels are very reliable. Others like to eat injectors and all sorts of other expensive crap. As for the mileage, after you work out the few K more for the engine upgrade on the order sheet and the higher average cost of Diesel it takes a long time to come out ahead. The power part I agree with if they can keep the Diesel internals light. One thing that can hold back a Diesel is the weight of the internals. You can make up for it with more aggressive boost but then you can blow shit out the side too. Anyways the torque is what makes the diesel the king of towing, especially in the low end. That's the power gas doesn't have. However the Tacoma can't tow enough to max out the 4.0 L IMHO so what the heck would a Diesel do to help. You'd be better off at that point spending the extra diesel dough on a full sized truck at that point.

Well, silly me, always bringing logic to the Diesel arguement. Don't trust the guy who runs Diesel and gas job trucks at work daily and can see the advantages/disadvantages of both .

 

All I know is, I have NEVER managed to even get EPA gas ratings in my [now] 8 trucks I've owned - keep in mind I am pushing 60 here. Struggled to get EPA gas ratings in cars.

Same driving habits, I not only get the 20% better EPA ratings the diesels have on the sticker but tend to get 15-20% above that. That's why I don't get these "pay way more for just 2mpg" comments.

Beyond that it is the perfect power curve for larger/heavier vehicles and [not comparing a Cayenne to a Tacoma] with a performance tune my 5000lb. Cayenne was 0-60 in 5.8 while the same performance tune produced 32-35mpg on the H/W when the sticker said only 29mpg. Do both those things with any gas engine. With 500 tuned lb.ft., 0-40mph I could keep up with about anything before [only] 300 tuned HP would start to hurt. I was slightly ahead of a friend that owns a Cayenne turbo to 40mph before his 450+HP took over. Yeah, I know the new ones have 520HP . . .

A smaller 4 banger diesel should easily push a Tacoma to 30mpg with some gears behind it while making it run/accelerate better in the process. To "keep" a viable compact, sub-full size, whatever you wanna call this market, fuel economy becomes more paramount. It's the main reason the big 3 gave up on it. You are not going to tow 7000 lbs. with a small pickup so it ain't about towing power but imagine 370 lb.ft. from 1500rpm on and 30mpg instead of 270lb.ft. and 21mpg.

I moved to S10s and a Ranger early on because [I didn't really need the "full" size and] full size trucks were getting 14-15 while the S10s/Ranger [and Tacomas] were getting 18-20. Full size trucks have now caught up with compact fuel economy but still hit a wall that only high-low-end-torque diesel can bust through.

Marketing drives everything. If clean diesel is developed and more importantly properly marketed, it will sell with volume driving development and fuel costs down.

I will likely part with my Tacoma for a diesel Colorado/Canyon if GM does it right?? Jury is still out on that . . . unless Toyota does it better!

 

...reliability... way better? how? that's humorous... especially in this imaginary engine Toyota would provide to the US market

 

There's the truth. No one has succeeded yet in making a cheap reliable clean diesel. The emissions controls are about to get stricter too.

Your argument is full of ifs that might never happen. What IF Toyota was able to develop a high power capacitor that could actually hold energy for more than a brief time to make hybrids another 100% more efficient. Would hybrids suddenly take over. After all electric motors have way more torque than any engine weight to weight. It's all just talk until someone can do it. For now I don't see Diesel giving any significant improvement dollar for dollar over gas at the end of the day in the Tacoma. That's just my opinion. We all have one. Sort of like buttholes .

 

Why can't they just make the current system more efficient.
Aka http://www.saabsunited.com/2013/02/koenigsegg-use-a-saab-to-test-new-valve-technology.html

 

It has nothing to do with the MPG Ratings or how many they actually get. It is the Emissions Standards they are going to have to meet in 2016 and again in 2018. They can barely meet the ones we have now using after combustion exhaust treatments ( Urea Injection or DNOX ). It is just going to get worse.

 

Looks like a bunch of Over Engineered Crap to me.

 

Until you actually own one . . . it's amazing how much of a difference that can actually make in one's opinion!

I cannot wait until I can get into a clean diesel small-mid-truck whatever the hell you call this class now???

 

This fall there will be a Colorado waiting for you. Just report back in 5 years. I think it'll be 50/50 on whether or not you had a good experience. Let's just say I have no where near the confidence in a GM diesel as I do in a VW/Audi/Porsche diesel.

P.S. My location has 2 Cummins Dodge 3/4 tons and a Ford Powerstroke full ton. I may not own them, but I get to drive them plenty. If you want to lend me a Porsche diesel for comparison I won't argue either .

 

What about the 5.0 or 6.2? You should before making a blanket statement. They are all quicker than the diesel.

 

Back when Ford was still using the 5.4 and 6.8, the turbo diesel of the same time period was quicker.

 

Oh, I thought you were talking about current offerings as opposed to engines discontinued after the 2010 model year.