Toyota Tacoma Diesel Not Worth it Says Chief Engineer

In the days of the International T444e, sure. An inline 6 in a Peterbilt, sure. The little diesels overseas (line in the Hilux), maybe.

But I doubt the smaller truck engines that need to meet newer emissions standards (Powerstrokes, Duramaxes) will do that without an overhaul somewhere along that time.

 

Why does a diesel necessarily need an overhaul? Just because? The new Isuzu/Utilimaster Reach van is not even considered a heavy duty engine and has B-10 durability ratings of 310,000 miles, meaning that 90 percent will reach that mileage before requiring an overhaul. And that's in a giant van truck that is designed for all day every day city driving abuse. Imagine if that engine was in a 4750 pound mid-size grocery getting truck.

I've personally dealt with 500k+ mile Japanese diesels that never had any "overhauls". And we also dealt with near 400k mileage newer emission standard Japanese trucks with no "overhauls" either.


Personally I've seen more threads about blown engines here on this forum than I saw at my shop. Whatever happened to that late model Tundra owner whos 4.0L disintegrated with under 100k miles?

We're talking about 1 million miles here. Only the most hardcore semi tractors hit that. No modern car or truck is designed to do that and will never get close in normal driving. One guy hit 350k on his 4.0L Tacoma and all you guys went crazy. A small diesel will do that easily, seen it so many times. No need to even mention the word overhaul when talking about these new little diesels.

 

I'm talking a million miles...that's who I replied to. Not 500k. Big difference.

Hence my point, a PACCAR in a Peterbilt or a maybe a T444e will do that, a new Duramax or Powerstroke will probably not without an overhaul sometime before then.

 

The thing is, GM and Nissan both have third party companies working on their Diesels (Isuzu and Cummins, respectively). These diesel specialists are better equipped to meet exhaust standards in a budget. Toyota certainly can engineer a good diesel but they'd rather focus their research and development in other areas.

 

I understand that Toyota is out to make money and may have deemed diesel too expensive. Thats perfectly understandable and no one (well, at least not me) is arguing that.

But it's impossible not to admit that a small, clean, much more efficient diesel isn't completely possible and would be better suited to the tasks these trucks handle. VW and many other build them everyday. And will continue.

Let's just all agree Toyota is being its typical over-cautious self because they'll sell either way. They aren't known for innovation.

 

And 80% of the time percentage facts are made up.....lol

Seriously though, you are WAY off on those numbers. You are just pulling numbers out of the air. I have worked in the auto repair industry for over 30 years. I have worked on diesels, as well as gasoline and hybrid technology, so yes, I know quite well about the engines, and their drawbacks. Look at Ford with the 6.0 Failstroke. They have had NIGHTMARES with the EGR coolers and oil pumps, as well as turbos. GM lost a butt load on their 6.6 LB7 Duramax and the cracked injectors. Their next LLY engine and their pressure regulators and water pump failures helped pay for part of my daughters college! I never worked on the Dodge diesels, but any Google search will bring up tons of problems. They are no more reliable than their gasoline counterparts, if you compare the number of failures per unit of production. Sure, you can show me your uncle or cousin, or best friend who owned one and has hundreds of thousands of miles on it without a problem....and I can show you work order after work order of THOUSANDS of dollars in just simple repairs that cover a vast range of diesel engines.

Either way, Toyota does not feel that now is the right time to try and produce a diesel for the Tacoma. And I think they are right.

 

Hino is the number one Diesel manufacturer in Asia if I remember correctly. So that statement is incorrect. Toyota has a company that would be eager to engineer a Diesel. At least as eager as Isuzu was for GM.

 

so, The D4D diesel sold in Toyotas all over the world from Australia to Asia to Africa to Europe

it's not the right time to sell it in the USA

Because it won't meet pollution standards in the USA ?

 

^ Yea..exactly..or other retarded standards...

 

More because it will cost a shit ton to bring it up to the emissions standards in North America, and those standards are likely to get more strict in the future with no clear path to making Diesels cleaner than they already are.

 

Power jokes and durapads aren't real diesels. Stupid design from the get go.

Real diesels like you stated. Inline 6... Bread and butter. But really, all the new emission shit is a joke. I agree with it they won't last as long.

I did make them numbers up lol. It was to get the point across. Once again powerfails and durafags are not diesels. They are gay vacuum cleaners. V8? Nice failed attempt at a real diesel... inline 6. I know they make other shit in diesel engines, but the inline 6 is bread n butter. Why else does every single semi run them.

Toyota didn't offer a diesel so I moved on. Sure dodge has their issues... The issue is the transmission and the douchers running the chips on max. Why wouldn't it fail? Any chip can add up to 200 hp... I'd love to see a gas engine handle an extra 200 hp with zero mods done. 2jz don't count either... That bitch is magical.

 

You think your view is:

...But in reality, it is:

 

You deserve some rep good sir!

 

If that's directed towards me, I never said they were especially clean (not especially dirty either), just that they can meet emissions.

 

In Europe you can get almost any Toyota car with a diesel engine. But they also have the market/demand for that over there - in the US there's simply not a high enough demand for it yet so why bother selling one if only a few would buy it.

 

You're right. But I personally believe that the reason the demand isn't there is because of the stigmas surrounding diesels. If everyone was able to sample a diesel in the same platform beside a similar gasoline engine, they'd be a lot of new opinions. I keep mentioning VW's TDI engines but just look at what a cult following they have. It's the same with old Mercs, Cummins, etc. Diesels usually win people over.

 

Very possible. The VW TDi example is true. My brothers 2002 Golf tdi 5-speed is a little freight train. Absolutely makes my 2000 Civic feel like a turd power wise. And pulls much harder and is quicker than my wifes 04 Accord I-4 with "160 hp". And it still pulls in 47-50 mpg per tank with 130k miles which is above the EPA ratings. Has come close to 55 mpg on highway runs and can run in 5th gear up just about any hill on the Washington freeways. Did 50 plus mpg with his wife and daughter from Edmonds-Spokane-Edmonds, WA all on one tank of fuel course. All in a 1.9L 8 valve car with "90 HP". Can your car do that?

 

My wife's Sonata gets 42 mpg average. That car pulls hard and is quite a bit bigger than a Golf. With the local station selling gasoline at $85.9/L (USD 2.57/US gallon) and Diesel at $113.9/L (USD 3.43/US gallon), it costs ~6.12 cents to run my wife's Sonata per mile and ~6.24 cents to run your buddies Golf under the best conditions.

That's the problem with Diesel. Even if it gets 10 cents cheaper per liter you are still talking about a fraction of a penny difference in operating costs for fuel. Even at a full penny difference, and assuming a SMALL $2000 dollar markup for a Diesel vehicle, you would be talking about driving 200,000 miles before hitting the break even point.

So yes, my wife's larger GDI gas job can run around like a Jetta and gets mileage to compete with it. It also needs no DEF or a particulate filter to get there, which are two components that I don't have to replace.

 

I don't know that much about the Hyundai offerings. Is the GDI the 2.0T that's rated at 21/32 mpg? How exactly is that car getting 17 mpg over the rated average?

Help me out here, even the Sonata Hybrid is only rated at 40 mpg hwy. Also, you're assuming that your car is cheaper than a comparable new TDI Jetta which or may or may not be true depending on trim levels and such. And that your car won't have any issues ever and a diesel car with DPF will have nothing but issues. Sounds logical.