Toyota Tacoma Diesel Not Worth it Says Chief Engineer

Notice GM killed the "innovation" brands like Saturn, Pontiac and Hummer during their bankruptcy, but kept the stale brands GMC and Buick?

 

I agree, they weren't heavy duty enough or designed to handle the torque of the engines. I searched for about a year for a M/T 7.3 Powerstroke with under 250k miles before I found this one. Well worth the wait!

 

Was waiting for this

 

I'm really not understanding your argument or the bunched undies - Are you now trying to tell me that a full size pickup can out haul a dump truck?

I never said the Tacoma couldn't be used as a truck, or that it was incapable of performing work similar to what a larger truck can do. When hauling heavy loads/towing heavy trailers it will never be as capable as a full size truck. Much like saying if you're going to haul really heavy loads/tow heavier loads a heavier duty 3/4 ton or 1 ton is more capable than a 1/2 ton PU.

I'm at a loss trying to understand why anyone would get upset and try to argue this point.

David

 

That's your stock suspension right? You didn't spend thousands modifying it with aftermarket suspension - right? Not exceeding the GVWR right? Did you modify the brakes? Frame? Drivetrain?

David

 

Don't see many people missing hummer. Oversized, extremely wasteful, bulky piles of shit is what they were. 10 gallons to the mile for gas mileage too..

But I do agree in the pontiac and saturn side of your statement. I liked pontys, they were a fun lineup of cars. I almost bought an 08 G8 new after they got axed, had killer deals on remaining stock pontiacs, but decided a 4x4 truck would be more practical than a rear wheel drive car for winters up here.

 

I wonder how many GM drivers lurk these forums with the comments that come out . Who cares that the Tacoma is a light duty truck. Plenty of us push it well past it's limits for short periods of time, and with the proper modifications, the truck suffers no ill effects.

I use my Tacoma for work all the time. I also have a Ram 2500 that the company pays for that I use for my day to day work. There are places I can't get with a 3/4 ton when scouting and for those jobs my Tacoma is key. Does that make my Tacoma more of a work truck then the Ram? No. They are both excellent trucks at doing there own thing. The cool thing with the Tacoma is that you can modify it so many ways to do so many things. Can you honestly say you can take a Colorado, Ram, or several other trucks out there, and find the selection of heavy or light duty aftermarket upgrades that are out there for the Tacoma? No you can't. I could never turn my Ram into something that will ascend graveled hills well because it weighs to much. I can turn my Tacoma into something that can haul 1000 lbs in the box efficiently for a few hundred dollars worth of suspension parts though.

Enough rhetorical questions. Getting back to the thread, at least Toyota gave us a reason for not having a Diesel option. It's a good reason. Why? Because it would effect their bottom line in what they perceive as a negative way so they, as a company, are not going to head that direction. If, in your long and distinguished experience as a the leading manufacturer of vehicles on the road worldwide, think you can better predict what will pay off in the market be my guess and start making Diesel powered mini 3/4 tons....

Until then I trust that Toyota is probably right and the risk versus the reward of developing a small Diesel engine for North American emissions standards will not pay off in the long run.

 

I never got why they had to kill off Hummer. To me they could of revitalized the line by making all of these GM CUV's Hummers and made the badge into what Jeep is today. That would of been okay with me rather than having the GMC badge on a whole bunch of car based trucklettes.

 

we have a f 350 like this at my work for a service/fuel truck. Its got 300,000 miles and they just drive it. Everything works fine, needs a new clutch though.

 

At least Hummer was producing more off-road-oriented vehicles. Better to be bulky and wasteful in an H2 than in an Escalade, in my opinion. The H3 was more capable than the Colorado, with a steel front diff and available front locker. I think the H3 was executed better than the FJ Cruiser. Too bad the platform the H3 had to work with was crappy.

What I liked about Pontiac and Saturn was they were importing European and Australian GM models like the Holden HSV (G8), Opel Vectra (Saturn Astra), and Vauxhall VX (Saturn Sky convertible). It's a shame GM killed a brand that made this:



In favor of a brand that made this:

 

Yeah they are something else. A guy at my local parts store drives a 92 7.3 IDI F250 which was the pre Powerstroke, non turbo engine. It's a boat anchor and has gobs of torque, but isn't fast. He has a shade over 820,000 miles on it on regular maintnence. It belonged to his grandfather who bought it new originally and passed it onto him and it just keeps going and refuses to quit. The box is beat up, the doors sag on their hinges, the interior is pretty busted up, but it still starts and runs and gets him into town for work every day regardless. Sure it's had several sets of tires, batteries, alternators and probably a few clutches and glow plugs, but nothing majorly mechanical has gone wrong with it.

Yeah, I guess the H3 wasn't horrible, but I absolutely hated the H2. They were basically a big metal box on a half ton Silverado chassis. I went wheeling with some guys that had em and it was a pretty decent trail, medium level I'd say and they both had broken tie-rods and all sorts of stress related problems to the chassis from all that flexing and bouncing around by midday. They were too heavy for that setup and needed to be on a 3/4 or 1 ton chassis in my opinion.

 

This thread is getting unbearable...

 

So much contradictory information/opinions in this thread.

For me the take away is that I wish the diesel option was market driven instead of government driven. As it stands now, Toyota cannot even test the diesel market because of cost concerns raised by government regulations.

If it would increase sales/profit you would think that car makers would push the US government to rethink their stance on diesel.

 

That happens regularly with the military industrial complex. Heck, we go to war at the bequest of them. You may think the availability of diesels is govt. driven; in reality, the govt. is corporate driven. You need to convince corporate America that we need diesels.....not the govt. Yours is just a little more "contradictory information/opinion in this thread."

 

Smart man. So im assuming that the diesel in the colorado will either be short lived, or the cost will be astronomical. Both of witch I can see happening. Im also by no means a diesel fan either so this is good news for me lol

 

Exactly. I am a diesel fan but only in the right vehicles at a price I can afford. The Taco isn't that vehicle. It will cost an arm and a leg to make compliant.

 

You forgot they handled like a drunken pig wearing whoreheels on a luge track.

 

Even Jaguar, of all people, are coming to market with a diesel. Fact is, Toyota is just stubborn. Sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes bad. They have been obstinate about bringing a high quality, fuel efficient, torqued out diesel to North America for what, twenty years. Mazda has a killer 2.2L SkyActicD. Same problem. Emissions. Pool your resources. Figure it out.

 

Selling Diesel engines isn't for the greater good. These are companies that need to turn a profit. If their research shows that it will most likely only break even or might even lose money, why would they offer it? Not every business needs to make something for everyone.

Toyota historically tried to offer something for 80% of the market. Hypothetically, out of 100 truck buyers, Toyota's goal is to offer a product mix that meets the needs of 80 of them for the least investment possible. Maybe dropping the 6MT across the board and picking up a diesel would net the exact same 80 of 100. But, if it is cheaper to develop and manufacture the 6MT than it is to develop and manufacture the diesel, they've made the right call. Offering something for 100 of the 100 means so many variations and diminishing returns on your investment that you have now killed the line's profitability. If 40 of the 100 buyers are demanding a diesel and willing to pay, Toyota would offer it. You hit the fat chunk of the market first and then see what niches will fill out your product line. Right now diesel is an expensive niche.

Jaguar gets to ask premium prices for their product and they don't sell a lot in the first place. They might need the diesel to broaden their appeal where a new gas V6 that is actually modern with a 6 cog gearbox already gives the Tacoma a broader market. Toyota just has to refine the model mix.