Alignment, caster camber problems?

I did a 3" lift with spacers up front and 2" blocks in back. Took it to Firestone to get an alignment done and the numbers from the print out for before measurements and current measurements are the same. Does that make sense? At bottom of printout it also says " One or more values are not within specification. Tire wear, handling and safety problems may result" I don't feel that with a 3" they would not be able to adjust caster/camber within specs. When I did my lift I was aware to where the setting were set when I loosended bolts for lower control arm, set them back to where they were and adjustment marks have not moved since the alignment. Visually the front still appears to be the same as it was before. Sounds fishy to anyone? Any info would be helpful. Thanks

 

These are my numbers. left front camber .7, right front camber 1.2, left front caster .3, right front caster .2, left front toe .06, right front toe .07. Thanks again, hope to get some feedback.

 

Those were your before ( stock ) numbers too ?

 

I dont know what the stock numbers were but they gave me a printout and on top it says "Before Measurements" and gives those numbers and the bottom says "Current Measurements" with those same numbers for caster and camber. The only thing that changed was the toe.

 

I am not sure what sort of feedback you are looking for, but can confirm that your alignment numbers are terrible. Caster too low, Camber and Toe too high. I would imagine your truck is tracking poorly.

There are a lot of good threads on this site addressing this topic. You might want to read some of them. Personally, I am not surprised to hear that your Caster and Camber are out. A three inch suspension lift will cause this. I am surprised that the tech didn't at least tighten-up on the Toe setting. The laziest of techs will usually at least do this.

Unless you were screwing with your suspension previously, I am certain your pre-lift specs must have been within spec. Regardless, it is the current state that matters. To start with, I would go back and talk to the guy who did the work and get him to improve on his effort.

 

Just looking to get feedback on the numbers and if they are ok or not. Also if anyone knows what the numbers should be with a 3" lift. Do you know what the caster camber and toe #'s should be? thanks for your feedback.

 

ideally, Camber would be 0, Caster 2.5-3 and Toe 0. The closer you get to this the better. The only way you will achieve this with a 3" lift is if you run an adjustable UCA.

edit: as they are, you will get uneven tire wear and poor tracking

 

Thanks!

 

I just purchased a 2013 with a 3" lift (two weeks ago). Originally they did not do the alignment correctly. The back was 1 inch off from the front. I took it back in and they fixed it. Here is the readings before and after.

 

Ya'll should start asking for the bar graph style print-out that can be printed. Much easier to understand than just the numbers.

They look like this...you'd get 2 sheets. 1 Before. 1 After.

And whomever did the below alignment, did it incorrectly. HAVE, HAVE to set the rear, or the front WILL NEVER be correct. Don't have to worry about rear adjustments on solid axle rear wheel drive trucks. This S200 will still have drifting problems with the rear toe being out.

 

plus, if you drive enough with the alignment fubar and start the scalloping on the tires, then they will be a bugger the rest of their natural life...

 

Without adjustable upper control arms, you're not going to be able to get all the correct alignment numbers. Specifically caster. There just isn't enough factory adjustment at that height. Basically anything past 2.5" you need new UCAs to get caster back.

 

If you look at the report I posted in the above post they got it on mine and it is a 3" lift.

 

Every truck is different. That's why you keep seeing people who say they needed new UCAs and others who didn't. I played it safe and got new ones. Alignment was a piece of cake afterwards.

 

I've worked at chevy dealerships for close to 30 years and have done more alignments than I care to think about. What I think happened was the guy doing your alignment was inexperienced or lazy. A lot of guys doing alignments will see all values in the green and do nothing. They don't even look at the numbers, and some don't even know what the numbers mean or what angles they are adjusting.
Looking at your numbers, the camber most likely would show green, even though the numbers suck and you would soon be wearing the outside edge of your right front tire. Your left front may show wear, the actual spec is 0.5, but I would much rather see 0.0-0.2 The caster had to show red. I believe the spec on that is around 2.0, but the more the better, to a point, as long as they are close to the same side to side. Caster won't wear tires, but will affect handling. With the numbers you have, you must drift all over at highway speeds. Caster also helps the steering wheel go back to center.
Toe will kill tires faster than anything if it is off enough. I like to see it close to 0 although I think yours may be close to factory specs.
To sum it up, beware of the "Toe and Go" alignment. A lot of guys see the green, set the toe and let it go. Get your print out and look at it. Look at the numbers. Question them if it's way off. Also, remember, you can't always get the specs you want with the available adjustment.

 

Had the lazy tech issue, he saw all green in the specs and called it good. After some research on TW I knew what to ask for and got it cleared up. The second tech who did my alignment apologized and said the first tech saw everything was in spec ( in the green ) and left it like that, even though my numbers where terrible.

 

Just like rfsdave, I have done more alignments in my career than I care to think about. The thing about the Tacoma is that when you take it in for an alignment after having a lift installed you MUST make sure that the tech knows that with your truck you want a "lift modified alignment". The factory Tacoma specs for a 2013 Tacoma with a 4.0 and 4wd, sitting on 245/75R16 tires is:
Caster .97* to 2.47* (Pref 1.72*)
Camber -0.11* to 1.39* (Pref 0.64*)
Front Toe 0.048* to 0.264* (Pref 0.156*)

When you lift a truck we have found that a higher positive caster is desired for handling, and from what I have researched, a reading of 2.5* caster seems to be optimum. Here is where things get tricky. In SOME situations an alignment tech can actually be held legally liable if he sets the alignment angles outside of factory specs, if it can be proven that that had a factor in an accident where people were injured. That is why when I was working for GM we were told that we had to either set alignments to factory specs, or if the customer wanted to do anything off-spec the service writer was required to have a waiver signed by the owner of the vehicle. Of course some places don't care and will set an alignment to whatever the owner wants, without caring. So when you lift a truck and take it in for an alignment, you have to ask for whatever specifications YOU want your alignment to be.

Another note: I know that so many techs I have met over the years always say that toe should be set perfectly to zero so that there is no tire wear at all. I have learned through the years with talking to instructors and even the Hunter representatives that you really do want your toe to be set to whatever the specs say. So in this case the Tacoma should have toe set at around 0.156*, or about 0.078* toe-in on each side. What this does is helps improve forward bite and control when braking. The more toe-in, the more control and bite when braking, and the less wander when accelerating. And think about it, realistically you are not going to notice any excessive wear in a tire at a mere 0.078* of inward toe. Heck, that is less than a tenth of a degree!

 

What do you mean " the back was 1 inch off the front " ?

 

This is oretty interesting. My camber is definitely off after my lift. Tech said it was good but I can clearly see the RF off. Subbed for when I can get it back in the shop.

 

interesting info, thank you for sharing.