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Chicken Tax to be repealed?

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by NoDak, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. Jul 2, 2015 at 11:39 AM
    #1
    NoDak

    NoDak [OP] Well-Known Member

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    After over 50 years, the so-called Chicken Tax may finally be going the way of the dodo. Two pending trade deals with countries in the Pacific Rim and Europe potentially could open the US auto market up to imported trucks, if the measures pass. Although, it still might be a while before you can own that Volkswagen Amarok or Toyota Hilux, if ever.

    The 25-percent import tariff that the Chicken Tax imposes on foreign trucks essentially makes the things all but impossible to sell one profitably in the US, which lends a distinct advantage to domestic pickups. Both the Trans-Pacific Partnership with 12 counties and Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership with the European Union would finally end the charge. According to Automotive News though, don't expect new pickups to flood the market, at least not immediately. These deals might roll back the tariff gradually over time, and in the case of Japan, it could be as long as 25 years before fully free trade. Furthermore, Thailand, a major truck builder in Asia, isn't currently part of the deal, and any new models here would still need to meet safety and emissions rules, as well.

    Automotive News gauged the very early intentions of several automakers with foreign-built trucks, and they weren't necessarily champing at the bit to start imports. Toyota thinks the Hilux sits between the Tundra and Tacoma, and Mazda doesn't think the BT-50 fits its image here. Also, VW doesn't necessarily want to bring the Amarok over from Hannover. There is previous precedent for companies at least considering bringing in pickup trucks after the Chicken Tax's demise, though.

    The Pacific free trade deal could be done as soon as this fall, while the EU one is likely further out, according to Automotive News. Given enough time, the more accessible ports could allow some new trucks to enter the market.

    original article : http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/30/import-pickup-truck-killing-chicken-tax-to-be-repealed/
     
  2. Jul 2, 2015 at 11:47 AM
    #2
    ronopolis

    ronopolis Ronopolis

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    1truckdriver, Xaks and ItalynStylion like this.
  3. Jul 2, 2015 at 11:51 AM
    #3
    MGMTacolover55

    MGMTacolover55 Well-Known Member

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    Basically Mazda sucks! Why the hell can't we have a midsize truck market? I Want to see full size trucks and midsize trucks duke it and allow prices to drop significantly.
     
  4. Jul 2, 2015 at 12:02 PM
    #4
    Shelf Life

    Shelf Life Well-Known Member

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    The day may come when we can start bitching about our Hiluxs' on here. :D
     
  5. Jul 2, 2015 at 7:35 PM
    #5
    Silverwing

    Silverwing Well-Known Member

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    Don't put many eggs in the basket betting the chicken tax will be a thing of the past... Total Fantasy...

    Ford, GM and Ram (Fiat) feast on the fat profits from full size pickup trucks sold in their protected markets.

    True world competition would destroy the oligarch's lofty perch...
     
    Tunngavik likes this.
  6. Jul 3, 2015 at 8:40 AM
    #6
    ItalynStylion

    ItalynStylion Sounds Gooooood

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    If any of you don't fully understand (or THINK you understand) the chicken tax I HIGHLY encourage you to listen to the quoted webcast above. It's only 15 min and it's the best explanation I've heard on the subject.
     
  7. Jul 3, 2015 at 9:47 AM
    #7
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

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    Fiat wants to bring the Ram 700 and their small vans over to NA. They won't resist the change. Ford would be happy I'm sure selling the T6 Ranger and the F150 as long as they kept their market share. GM is the company with the least to gain from the loss of the chicken tax. They haven't exactly kept up with the smaller corporate vans that Fiat and Ford are bringing in and, other than the Colorado, they don't have many vehicles to bring in that aren't already here.
     
  8. Jul 3, 2015 at 7:24 PM
    #8
    Xaks

    Xaks Cranky & often armed sysadmin

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    This was an excellent listen.

    Can you imagine how good foreign trucks could be right now if they weren't so gimped?

    The Taco has already stomped out the S-10 and Ranger (although not by itself, the much higher profit margins per unit on the F series and Silverado et all have helped)
     
    ItalynStylion likes this.
  9. Jul 3, 2015 at 8:02 PM
    #9
    MGtaco2.7

    MGtaco2.7 MEMBER

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    That was a good listen. Knew somewhat of the chicken tax, but that put it all together.
     
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  10. Jul 5, 2015 at 6:28 PM
    #10
    Silverwing

    Silverwing Well-Known Member

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    Sure they would... maybe you should research the protective EPA square inch foot print of trucks versus the manufactures CAFE fleet fuel averages if you don't think the game is rigged... The global Ranger makes perfect sense for the US market, but the F-150 is a better deal for FOMOCO... So they say FU American consumer, your buying our full size truck or nothing... The new Tacoma, Colorado, Canyon, Frontier, Ridgeline will show FOMOCO clearly how many US consumers want a mid size truck... The game was rigged against small and mid size trucks by the manufacturing lobbies and EPA, ironically it was Government Motors (GM) that grew the balls to stand up to the EPA foot print CAFE standards and bring back the new mid size trucks... thus forcing Toyoda to update its decade old cash cow the "Tacoma"... All these trucks have huge profit margins compared to the cars the manufactures sell... $35 - 40,000 for the simplest and most basic engineering and manufacturing in the auto industry... Ford would not exist if it were not for the F series...

    The engineering challenge of a Prius vs. a Tacoma... don't even start... The Taco is a simple as a Honda Lawn mower versus the Hondajet...
     
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  11. Jul 5, 2015 at 7:09 PM
    #11
    Silverwing

    Silverwing Well-Known Member

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    Just a slight insight into the games played with your vehicles to be purchased:

    Longevity and durability of little to no concern - auto stop start and enviro paint that sux-


    [​IMG]
    Ryan Beene [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Automotive News
    July 5, 2015 - 12:01 am ET
    WASHINGTON -- When it comes to technologies used to clean up vehicle emissions, glass and paint might not be the first things that come to mind.

    But if they reflect rather than absorb the sun's infrared rays, a vehicle can stay cooler on a hot summer day. That means the air conditioner can work less, which in turn uses less energy from the vehicle's fuel-burning engine.

    That's the general idea behind the latest round of requests for "off-cycle" emission credits made by Ford, Fiat Chrysler and General Motors under the EPA's program to reduce tailpipe emissions.

    FCA's application seeks off-cycle credits for glass and paint that reflect solar rays, for ventilated seats and for LED lights that use less energy than conventional bulbs. Ford seeks credits for those technologies, as well as for active grille shutters that close at high speeds to improve aerodynamics, engine stop-start systems and technologies that warm engines and transmissions more efficiently.

    GM has requested credits for using a more-efficient air conditioner compressor from Denso that it debuted on the 2013 Cadillac ATS and has since added to all full-size trucks, including the Chevrolet Silverado.

    The requests, which await EPA approval, highlight some of the many tools automakers can use to comply with the agency's regulations that seek to cut fleetwide carbon dioxide emissions in half by the 2025 model year from 2012 model year levels, the equivalent of achieving a fleetwide average of 54.5 mpg, and the flexibility that's built into the tougher standards.


    Extra credit
    GM, Ford and FCA are petitioning the EPA to award credits for technologies that reduce emissions in ways that don't show up in agency testing. Here's a rundown of the “off-cycle” credit requests.
    Emissions credit value (grams c02/mile)
    Technology
    Cars Trucks Company
    Denso AC compressor w/variable crankcase suction valve technology
    1.1g 1.1g GM
    High-efficiency exterior lights 1.0g 1.0g FCA, Ford
    Solar reflective glass 2.9g 3.9g FCA, Ford
    Solar reflective paint 0.4g 0.5g FCA, Ford
    Active seat ventilation 1.0g 1.3g FCA, Ford
    Active transmission warm-up 1.5g 3.2g Ford
    Active engine warm-up 1.5g 3.2g Ford
    Engine stop-start 2.5g 4.2g Ford
    Active grille shutters TBD TBD Ford
    Source: EPA
     
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  12. Jul 5, 2015 at 7:59 PM
    #12
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

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    Just FYI I quote the CAFE requirements on here all the time. I know what you are getting at but the fleet spread on those requirements doesn't allow for as much manipulation as it did in the early 2000's. IIRC in the next 5-10 years the full sized truck requirements are going to creep past 25 mpg. We will see what the big companies do then.

    As for Ford not existing with the F series :rofl:. Ford is the worlds Fifth largest automaker and keep in mind they don't sell there medium and heavy duty fleet internationally, so take that away from Toyota and GM, and they are almost on top. If Ford wasn't selling the F-series they'd be selling the T6 Ranger, which by the way out sells the Colorado big time in most markets and scores highly against the Hilux.

    If the market dictates smaller trucks for will happily go there. Then we will get $50K trucks that are the exact same as our full sized trucks but Diesel and a foot smaller. I'm not sure I'm okay with that. Diesel, while dramatically more fuel efficient, emits larger amounts of NOx and particulates that cause smog and the brown haze effect. To get them down to levels of emissions that we can tolerate you end up with emissions systems that are prone to failure and rob the engine of power much like when catalytic converters first came out. With Diesel versus Gasoline it's a lose-lose situation. Neither is a miracle fuel for the environment even when Diesel gets better mpg.
    Don't hate the players, hate the game.

    Toyota plays that game too. Do you really think they have 3 versions of the Prius because the market demands that? Nope. They have three versions because each version counts as a separate model and increases their CAFE mileage. Everyone manipulates the system. You don't get to have a billion dollar company by playing nice and fair with the rules, you get there by circumventing every rule you can the costs money. I don't agree with it but it's what happens.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  13. Jul 5, 2015 at 8:18 PM
    #13
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

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    Btw Ford already has their small Diesel out in the Transit van. Should Ford want to bring the T6 Ranger to market they won't take long to get them on the road. If you think the auto companies like making profit on $50 K full sized trucks wait until they can chop 20 percent of the crap off of that truck and sell it for $45K.

    Btw truck, no matter the size, aren't fuel efficient because of all the air they do have to move out of the way at speed. The drag coefficients between mid sized and full sized trucks aren't that different. That's why an underpowered Ecodiesel Ram can post fantastic mpg numbers that will likely not be beat much by the new Diesel Colorado.
     
  14. Jul 6, 2015 at 12:15 PM
    #14
    127.0.0.1

    127.0.0.1 AKA ::1

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    How I long for the little Toyota pickup trucks with the snap-close tailgate and array
    of hooks down the side. If they still sold them I would have bought three vs my single Tacoma
     
  15. Jul 6, 2015 at 12:31 PM
    #15
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

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    If you want to see Toyota playing that BS CAFE game @Silverwing check out the 2016 sheet and what it says about tonneau covers:

    [​IMG]

    Toyota is putting them on 30% of the fleet to get a CAFE exemption :rofl:. See everyone is circumventing the system at every turn they can.
     
  16. Jul 6, 2015 at 12:42 PM
    #16
    127.0.0.1

    127.0.0.1 AKA ::1

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    ya know what is stupid, that many TESTS with tailgate up, tailgate down, and with a tonneau cover, the tonneau cover performed
    worst. tailgate up is best with no cover (depends on the vehicle I am sure, tiny changes to anything from front bumper
    to the rear may mean a tonneau cover on a 2016 tacoma increases MPG)

    but for sure just saying 'tonneau cover increases MPG' is wrong. you need to specify 'on which specific model truck' and also a hard cover that goes over the edges.

    consumer reports said RAM trucks got worse with tonneau

    ---overall--- I guess they do improve mileage at least a tiny percentage so....to meet CARB..yeah here ya go tonneau cover for your 2016 tacoma CAFE requirements
     
  17. Jul 6, 2015 at 12:44 PM
    #17
    Sterdog

    Sterdog Offline

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    Oh, I know. I watched the mythbusters do this twice over to prove it. This is all CAFE manipulation at it's finest with no science behind it. I just found it hilarious that as one member is preaching about how American companies are circumventing CAFE with some stuff that actually does reduce emissions Toyota released this gem!
     
  18. Jul 6, 2015 at 3:20 PM
    #18
    Silverwing

    Silverwing Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they all play the games, sad they can't focus on the real objective of building a truck...

    I've heard rumors of Global Rangers rolling on the streets of the USA being tested, let's hope they have the little diesel in them and Ford could make a quick entry into the U.S. market in which they are obviously missing out.
     
  19. Jul 6, 2015 at 6:18 PM
    #19
    Silverwing

    Silverwing Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the F series is what keeps FOMOCO in business... 70% to 90% of FOMOCO profits are from the F series trucks... on the years when they posted losses in the billion$ it is what kept them from becoming Government Motors II...

    The Ford F-Series is a perennial member of the US bestseller list with the title in its brawny grasp for over 30 years, and the truck ranks as the top-selling model over $50,000 in the country. It shouldn't come as a shock then that the model is a major buttress of Ford's bottom line. Have you ever wondered just how vital the trucks are to the Blue Oval's health, though? Some math based on recent figures suggests they might be even more important than you think.

    Automotive News recently did the calculation and came up with that each F-150 sold contributed about $13,333 to the company's profits. That number was based on a statement from Ford CFO Bob Shanks that the automaker could have made another $1 billion in North America for the first quarter with a repeat of last year's sales of the F-150 and Edge, with 60,000 more trucks and 15,000 additional crossovers.

    If those 75,000 missing vehicles cost the company $1 billion, then they averaged $13,333 each. Also, the F-150 makes up 80 percent of the lost sales, so you might even conclude that each pickup brings even more money into Ford. Automotive News also extrapolates further. Based on a forecast of 800,000 F-Series sales this year, that's about $10.7 billion going into Ford's coffers.

    Obviously, these figures are far from exact since they are based on a single statement from the automaker's CFO. Autoblog reached out to Ford to see if the numbers were accurate, but the Blue Oval wouldn't comment on vehicle profitability.

    However, AutoPacific analyst Dave Sullivan suggests these figures could be on the right track, if a bit high. "The rough guess has been $10,000. Obviously that is a little different for a $60k truck vs a regular cab 4x2 work truck, but $10,000 is the ball park that is used," he said to Autoblog.

    If you ever wonder why Ford might be loathe to bring the smaller Ranger back to the US when it's available elsewhere, these huge profits are likely part of the answer. The Blue Oval has little reason to cut into the sales of a model that makes the brand billions.

    Related Video:
     
  20. Jul 6, 2015 at 6:27 PM
    #20
    Sterdog

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    Unless they can make just as much or more money with a midsized truck.

    I agree that Ford has backed off the Ranger to encourage F150 sales and the F150 is definitely a huge money maker for Ford, but to say that those two factors would stop Ford from entering the market if the Colorado or Government Regulation favored them reentering the midsized market is crazy. That's my point.

    Dodge and GM are just as dependent on there truck brands. Toyota is dependent on cab over and small vehicle sales in Asia made to a lower safety standard. Everyone has their bread and butter which the F150 is for Ford but, if you knew anything about Ford, you'd also realize that they were the only NA automaker to anticipate the crash of the mid 2000's and get through that period without massive bailouts. They anticipated the crash and restructured their lines to meet the future diminished demand which no other automaker did. Even Toyota took massive interest free loans from the Japanese government to get through a forced restructuring during the auto crunch. Ford is a company that can evolve and, if the market goes towards midsized trucks, they will succeed in that market just like they dominate the fullsized market. Which small truck held the number 1 position before the Tacoma? The Ranger. Which small truck will hold the mantel if the Ranger returns. Probably Toyota because they've done such a great job finding and developing the market but I wouldn't bet a dime against Ford.

    It's no wonder GM is debating a merger with Fiat/Crysler. They are both hopeless companies that will need to combine the next time rapid change is needed to address changes in the market. Those are the useless American automakers. Those head offices still resist change and believe in trends that don't exist anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015

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