Crawl Control a "gimmick"?

...Q:...What's the worst thing about being old?

...A:....Remembering when you were young..........

 

It takes the skill out of off roading. Period.

Now a bafoon like myself can take my truck out there and get around.

It's a cool feature for sure, but it is a cheat. Take a 16' Tacoma up a radical rock hill and have someone drive an old manual Wrangler up the same hill, who likely did the more skilled driving?

 

but manuals are better for control, especially when towing.
I can shift at a better point than the computer. Especially since the computer basically requires that the RPMs reach a certain point before the shift takes place, which is why manuals get better gas milage. You shift before the engine starts working too hard for a particular gear.

I wish automatics where so good they beat manual shifting. But a computer cannot read minds or tell what you want to do with the car, at least not yet...

 

Automatic transmissions aren't as durable as manual transmissions.

I bought a Tacoma because I wanted a truck with manual transmission. There are lots of things I like about Toyota and their Tacomas, but without the stick-shift, I would have never even considered buying one.

Technology is fine and if Tacomas come with Crawl Crontrol then that's great, but if it isn't available with a manual transmission, I'll never have it.

 

No one doubts that when driven carefully the manual gives the driver an element of control not found in automatics. But, I work part time for my nighbor or who is a contractor . He has no use for a manual in his trucks used for hauling heavy loads, towing and doing it more economically. His well cared for trucks easily have transmissions that outlast the rest of the vehicle. There is a huge difference between capability and how they are actually used and drivers in general don't drive manuals efficiently and as capably as computer controlled autos. Drivers are rushed, tired and over worked......the computer doesn't tire.

I tow a lot....never go back to a manual. Autos are safer and more durable.....and more efficient. Btw, I have yet to meet many who laud the advantages of a manual for towing, that actually do much more then a week end utility trailer.

 

You are making a claim based on a sweeping generalization.
Your opinion applies more to people than actual car mechanics.

I guess since your neighbor doesn't want a manual then no one else should either. Pay no mind to the fact that most semis on the road are sticks. That means nothing.

 

Funny, I thought people driving the car were the entire issue. There is one thing to make claims about what a manual will do, there us another about actually doing it. My previous Kubota L series tractor was a manual and it was more efficient in gallons of fuel used per hour by 30% then the hydro I have now. But, the hydro us safer, offers better control and can do literally, twice the work per hour.....huge net gain per hour. Similar with work trucks and working personal trucks. Manuals are almost never driven up to their capability...the auto always is.

 

Semis are over the road vehicles driven hundreds of thousands of miles in a straight line. If you do that, get a manual. You are mistakening want for practicality. You want a manual, fine. Just don't make false claims about practically.

 

But unless you have scientific data actually showing what a good amount of people do then we probably shouldn't claim what the average person does.

You made the claim that computers are better than manuals because most people get tired and don't drive sticks right. That makes no sense. You can't judge the capability of a manual by how some people may theoretically drive it. You judge it for its actual capabilities.

That's like me claiming toasters are useless peices of crap because they burn toast due to the fact people use the timer on the side like a thermostat. Operator error is not product error.

 

Youre doing what people often do when loosing a debate. Change the subject and declare something different. If you were actually involved in the commercial use of vehicles, you would see they are by vast majority. Automatics. This isn't because the business owners woke up one day and that's all they had available. Business people are smart and want equipment where efficiency and durability and cost effectiveness are important. Your claim was manuals do everything better. Heck, they can't even get EPA mileage ratings of autos. Many race cars run autos, buses run autos, every commercial plowing business that does private plowing runs autos. Look around....my scientific survey is just you opening your eyes. Now, you want to own a manual for other reason, fine, I did for many many years too. But in most of the uses you listed, autos do it better !

That's my last word on the too often repeated manual vs auto debate.

 

https://youtu.be/3Xjir3YSUA8

 

We should really go by which transmission costs more to fix.... AUTOMATIC WINS!!!

 

Essentially nothing you said is true for modern automatic transmissions and hasn't been true for decades. Auto trannies do not shift based on RPMs (except at some hard limit redline to prevent engine damage). Manuals are not better for towing than autos made for towing. Manuals do not get better gas mileage. I don't think you understand how any of this works.

 

You won't have any other alternative soon.

 

In 5 years this won't be true, the shift to automatic is happening very fast. Of course, in 10 years, there won't be long haul truck with humans inside, but that's another story.

 

God Ihate that, there are few knuckleheads here that are excellent at this..
However.....

I think your statement is correct for most part, its just mistakes convenience with quality on a lot of cases.
Automatics generally are not "better" than manual transmission, but they are way more convenient.
When you have Automatic you can do following while driving. (as observed over the years behind the wheel):

1. You can eat your breakfast, lunch and dinner
2. You can talk to anybody and text anybody
3. Have your manicure and pedicure done on the way to pickup kids.
4. Get your Brazilian wax completed while driving to the beach.
5. Run out of batteries in your Vibrator while in GWB traffic on way out of NYC.
6. Have your wife or your GF suck your d...k on NJ turnpike..
7. Change your bra, flash friendly truck drivers...
etc etc etc

Also when you get old and your legs don't work as they used to automatic is your friend
When you twist your ankle and still need to get to work automatic is your friend too.
When you are driving in NYC traffic oh boy Automatic is your friend...

So both of you have valid points just mistakenly mix convenience with a quality.

 

Insecure much?

 

I should have at least 15 years of good driving with my current truck. When the time comes for a new vehicle, if Toyota doesn't sell what I want I'll go back to driving a Jeep. I love both vehicles.

 

I had CRAWL control in high school when I drove my dad's '67 F100 with a granny 4spd. I'd pop it in first, ease the clutch out, and put both feed on the dash while I crawled around the school parking lot.

For me, since I haven't been offroading for years like many of you, the gadgets or gimmicks in the OR add a peace-of-mind or an insurance policy if you will. I may never use CRAWL and I may never get into a situation where I have to use the locker, but at least they are there in case I do find myself in a situation that calls for them.

I like to get remote, by foot. So far only from easily accessed trailheads. But I'm thinking the OR will open up new areas to me, so I can get out there and see the vast landscapes that are rarely touched by Man. Those are the scenes that make me smile. Many of my ultimate destinations do not include trails passable by any vehicle.

Has anyone discussed CRAWL with any 4Runner owners that have it?

I do think that comparing CRAWL to things like ABS or air-bags is a poor argument. CRAWL really isn't a safety issue and will likely never be mandated by the NTSB like ABS or air-bags.

Much like the air biscuit I just floated this debate will eventually dissipate.

 

Sorry if I offended you. Please enlighten me on how my real world experience with crawl control makes you upset?!?!