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Transmission fluid level question

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by GonHuntin, Aug 28, 2015.

  1. Aug 28, 2015 at 12:58 PM
    #1
    GonHuntin

    GonHuntin [OP] Member

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    Did a search and still am not sure of the right answer.


    2004 Tacoma V6 4x4 auto trans.

    I installed a transmission cooler and decided to do a drain and fill while I was at it. Owner's manual says 2.5 qt drain and fill with Toyota type IV fluid. I measured the fluid that I caught while installing the cooler in addition to what drained out from the pan, right at 2.5 quarts. I added 2.5 quarts at the dipstick, started the truck and checked the fluid. With the engine running, trans in park, dipstick says it's low. With the engine off and the trans cold, the fluid level is exactly at the full cold mark.

    I have owned this truck since 2009, always garaged, it has never dripped a single drop of atf and I have never added any, so I have a very hard time believing that the transmission was low on fluid before the drain and fill.

    I have searched the owner's manual and I can't find anything about checking the transmission fluid level…..whether to check with the engine running or not? I read some on here say to check with it running, but how do we know for sure??

    PS: Don't know why, but I had to re-register to log in?
     
  2. Aug 28, 2015 at 1:10 PM
    #2
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Never answer an anonymous letter

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    The addition of the cooler would up the capacity, correct? How much does the cooler manuf. say to add for that? Is that how much you are low?

    AFAIK, the trans should be checked hot and running. The idea being you want the fluid expanded and the torque converter full, and it has to be running to be full.
     
  3. Aug 28, 2015 at 3:21 PM
    #3
    GonHuntin

    GonHuntin [OP] Member

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    Good question, haven't found anything that tells the capacity of the cooler (tru-cool M7B), but it can't be more than a pint. The fluid level on the stick is well below the bottom cold level notch when the engine is running.
     
  4. Aug 28, 2015 at 3:35 PM
    #4
    keakar

    keakar Well-Known Member

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    don't forget the cooler lines as well. I bet you need another quart to make it right and yes the fluid level has to be checked with the engine running.

    put half a quart then recheck and after its good recheck the level in a day or two just to be sure its still at the right mark. if its a "little" over the full mark, its no big deal, but you don't want it to be under
     
  5. Aug 28, 2015 at 3:38 PM
    #5
    bldegle2

    bldegle2 OldPhart

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    there are four notches on the dip stick in the 1st gens...when the transmission is hot the ATF level should be between the top two notches, always check the ATF level with the engine running and the transmission fluids are hot (warmed up). Judging from the size of the cooler you installed plus the additional lines, it looks like at least about a quart is needed to bring it up to the right level, plus your transmission may have been a bit low to begin with...at least with the first gens, adding ATF is a snap using a funnel and the dipstick hole..I just changed my radiator and lost some fluids while doing it, had to add about a pint and a half to get it up to the right level again, very easy with the funnel. Mine may have been a bit low to begin with, I didn't lose that much when changing the radiator...
     
  6. Aug 28, 2015 at 3:41 PM
    #6
    GonHuntin

    GonHuntin [OP] Member

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    You may very well be correct, but, since the owner's manual doesn't say, how do we know it should be checked with the engine running?

    I considered the additional length of cooling line, couldn't hold more than a couple of ounces.

    Since the current level is well below the bottom cold notch, I seriously doubt a quart will bring it to the full mark.
     
  7. Aug 28, 2015 at 3:44 PM
    #7
    bldegle2

    bldegle2 OldPhart

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    My Hanes manual specifically states to check the ATF level with the engine running and the fluids heated up...it really doesn't take that much to bring the levels up, make sure to do it a little bit at a time...mine was just below the bottom notch, a pint and a half brought all the way up to the top notch, be careful filling.
     
  8. Aug 28, 2015 at 4:15 PM
    #8
    bldegle2

    bldegle2 OldPhart

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    BTW, were did you mount your cooler?
     
  9. Aug 28, 2015 at 4:25 PM
    #9
    GonHuntin

    GonHuntin [OP] Member

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    Mounted the cooler on the right side in front of the condenser, had to extend the horn wires and move the horn to the left side. The M7B is about as big as I could fit without modifying the center support for the hood latch.

    Once or twice each year I tow a 16' trailer, with a Kubota tractor, front end loader and brush hog, about 120 miles round trip to mow fire breaks and plant food plots. It's close to max towing weight, never had an issue, but figured a trans cooler couldn't hurt.
     
  10. Aug 29, 2015 at 5:27 AM
    #10
    deckeda

    deckeda Well-Known Member

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    That's been the way to check really any auto trans for decades. Running and hot. I'd expect Toyota's service manual to verify this, but I don't have one.
     
  11. Aug 29, 2015 at 5:38 AM
    #11
    gearcruncher

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    if you check without the engine running the fluid level will be very high gìving you a false reading considering the pump is not turning . The pump needs to be pumping in order to charge all the circuits with oil .When the engine is running ìn park oil circulates through the cooler and valve body .
     
  12. Aug 29, 2015 at 9:46 AM
    #12
    Sicyota04

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    That's funny on my 04 Double cab the dipstick says cold at the first notch and as you go up it says hot on the next notch. I know you should always check it with the engine running but I wonder why there would be a cold reading notch
     
  13. Aug 29, 2015 at 9:59 AM
    #13
    gearcruncher

    gearcruncher Well-Known Member

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    Everything expands as things warm up . You can check the transmission cold and running in park using the lower notches on the level indicator but its best practice to check it warm to guarantee its filled properly after all the circuits are charged
     
  14. Aug 29, 2015 at 11:25 AM
    #14
    Digiratus

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    Earlier this summer I added a tru-cool 4454 cooler to the same location the OP described. I did lose a tiny bit of fluid in the process but after checking the dipstick, it appeared to stilll be full so I did not add any fluid.

    Fast forward to last week on a road trip, I got a P0770 CEL. At the time I had no idea what triggered it and the scangauge easily cleared the code and it has not returned. I now see that this CEL could be related to low fluid level. http://engine-codes.com/p0770_toyota.html

    Looking back on it, I'm pretty sure that I checked the fluid level improperly. The fluid was not cold but the engine was not running so I probably got a false reading. I will check it again today using the correct method and see if I get a low reading.
     
  15. Aug 29, 2015 at 11:37 AM
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    Mush Mouse

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    its a Toyota truck and that's all the modifications needed
    the tranny takes 4quarts of fluid not 2.5 qts. as the manual wrongly states. that's when you do a complete pan drain and refill>>4 quarts
     
  16. Aug 29, 2015 at 12:05 PM
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    Sicyota04

    Sicyota04 Slowly but surely.

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    Is it bad to flush the system? I have asked on other threads and haven't gotten any replies
     
  17. Aug 29, 2015 at 1:11 PM
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    keakar

    keakar Well-Known Member

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    no its not bad its a good thing to do.

    its an old saying from way back in the 70's that those older trannys had pad wear particles and sludge circulating in them the helped it grip the bands but on the newer trannys we have today a tranny would not run with that crap circulating in it.

    replacing the tranny fluid is no different then changing oil on your engine and anyone who says flushing the tranny will make it go bad is an idiot because that would be no different then saying if you change your engine oil it will go bad.

    people keep repeating this lie telling others not to flush trannys but they cannot and never will be able to show one example where it hurt a tranny to put fresh new fluid in it. if they ever bothered to learn about these things they would see that NOT flushing out old tranny fluid is harmful to it and shortens the life of the tranny
     
    Sicyota04[QUOTED] likes this.
  18. Aug 29, 2015 at 3:36 PM
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    GonHuntin

    GonHuntin [OP] Member

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    I realize that fluid levels on the stick are much different with engine running verses stopped, and you are probably correct in saying that the fluid level on the Tacoma should be checked with engine running. However, there is no "magic" regarding how the stick is marked, the transmission designer could just as easily calibrate the stick so that level can be checked with the engine shut off, right?

    This is my first Toyota……previous vehicles tell in the owner's manual (and many right on the dipstick) the correct way to check the level.

    I'm also surprised that, if the drain and refill info in the owner's manual is wrong, that there isn't a service bulletin correcting that info?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
  19. Aug 29, 2015 at 4:05 PM
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    Sicyota04

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    Thanks for the info! I just flushed my system on my Tacoma after having the same fluid in it for 50,000 miles. I did it at my college auto shop and it's just fine. I've done the drain & fill before but never flushed it. Everyone says drain & fill, drain & fill. Don't flush the system.
     
  20. Aug 29, 2015 at 4:10 PM
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    Digiratus

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    Just checked mine a few minutes ago using the 'correct' method as described by @gearcruncher and sure enough, I got a low reading with the engine running. I added almost a full quart to get the level between the hot marks.

    For what its worth, my owners manual states a drain and fill will be 2 quarts, not 4.
     

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