Which upper should I buy?

I thought I read somewhere they were all in the same plant , either way, this could either go good or bad. I'm hoping good. I could've bought a PSA upper, but I wanted CL and 4150 in my price range ...

 

and i just noticed that the PSA upper i was looking at wasn't posted on my first post, so i was under the impression you guys didn't like the PSA upper either

 

Why would you 'hope' something goes good and have zero recourse if it doesn't (other than selling it to someone else who doesn't know anything about uppers... sound familiar?) when you can spend the same money or less and get something brand new that is from a trusted seller and have a FULL warranty and customer service after the fact should something go wrong? You're hung up on the wrong things which is a common thing for newer shooters to do. They hear of a feature and it becomes a MUST HAVE when in reality they likely wouldn't know if they didn't have it. Chrome lining is one of these. You likely won't shoot enough rounds down the tube of this upper to ever notice the difference and it's benefits are widely debated. In fact, most agree that the CL barrels aren't as accurate overall (if comparing apples to apples) as non CL barrels which offer better cleaning characteristics. Either way, it's a very small aspect of the upper half. If you want it that's fine but if ease-of-cleaning is more important that the thing working properly your priorities are out of whack.

No, it wasn't. In fact, several time I mentioned them by name as a great option for someone on a budget.

 

Well I like everyone else jumped on the forums for the first upper buy guide and they all say cmv, CL, m4 feed ramps, etc so this one looks to have everything. Granted I prob don't need any of it, but it feels good knowing that I have all of it. On top of that , the PSA premium uppers were like 450 with the bcg and ch , plus shipping and tax.


Yeah in hind sight , I probably should've just waited for an PSA premium upper, if this one is no good I can sell it locally and buy a PSA upper.

This is just a typical move I'll make. Contemplating for 2 months on what to buy then make a 6 am impulse buy because it looks like a killer deal.


I NEVER do things the easy way lol , I'll post pics of it tomorrow when it comes in.

 

All the money you 'think' you saved (since it assumes the upper has nothing wrong with it and is genuinely like new and not used and abused for thousands of rounds) by throwing all the advice you asked for out the window might save you a few mags of ammo worth of money. That's a BEST CASE SCENARIO and assumes everything is perfect. Worst case scenario is you just bought someone else's support-less headache and now have to jeopardize your own morals to push it off on someone else by taking advantage of their ignorance. Sounds like a lose lose to me.

Once you see what it costs to start shooting these you will likely wish you had invested more in the equipment to begin with. The cost of rifles, even high-end ones, are but a drop in the bucket compared to what you will likely invest in ammo/training over the years of owning it. I don't get people losing sleep over a $300 or a $400 upper but no matter how much you try explain this concept they will never get it.

 

I understand, and I'm sure one day I'll be kicking myself in the ass saying I should've listened to the guy on TW. Just hopefully it's later then sooner ...

 

I just did the research and nowhere does Noveske or LMT indicate they make their own components. They don't indicate barrel manufacture (RRA uses Douglas or Shaw). They don't indicate BCG manufacture other than they meet or exceed certain specs. They only indicate charging handle and handguard because that impresses the COD crowd. I find it interesting that those manufacturers are rarely, if ever mentioned at Camp Perry.
This is like the 1911 crowd that would praise Colt without any critical thought and now they finally seem to realize that until recently, Colt 1911's were rattle traps in desperate need of a real tuning until they could shoot with the accuracy of a basic Kimber.

 

Colt has been on the way out for decades and I've been saying it almost as long. Only recently did people start to finally listen to me.

As for what is mentioned in Camp Perry... does the government always buy the best available or buy at a price point a product that meets specs that can be delivered in a quantity specified?

Making your own components isn't always the best idea when there are high-end offerings from those who specialize in them. Some components require a focus to perfect and keep QC up so saying they don't make their own isn't a positive or a negative depending in the specifics. More important is the quality of individual components, how they all work together and then how they're assembled to make the sum greater than the quality of the parts. It's not all about who makes the parts or how they make them but R&D and fitment are also factored into QC figures and how to determine who makes a good rifle/upper/lower. There's a reason you can pick up inexpensive stripped lowers just about anywhere but that's a very small part to the equation. If you're just building a milspec (some mistakenly think this term means best of the best) rifle and sourcing cheap parts that meet that specification you'll probably get something that does just fine and meets your needs for punching holes in paper targets for years to come. Different people have different needs.

That being said, Noveske hand selects his own steel by cherry picking from stock (a process started by John Noveske and passed onto those currently running things) that others (Specifically PacNor... a revered barrel builder) acquire in bulk. It's then turned over to PacNor where it's bored and rifled using proprietary tools owned by Noveske specifically FOR Noveske barrels. The blanks are then returned back to Noveske where they are chambered and contoured to their own exact specifications.

As far as LMT, they pioneered a process by which they can make more accurate chrome lined AR15 barrels than most. Most order up barrel blanks and then send them off to be chrome lined. This process includes an etching to remove a small portion of the material to make room for the actual chrome lining. It works but is an imperfect process but in a milspec rifle the grouping will still suffice as most are just battle accurate. LMT gets their barrels from Mike Rock who is also a revered match barrel maker but to their proprietary specs which is to make them ever-so-slightly larger so that they don't need to be etched. The result is a more uniform tube that yields tighter groups and overall a better barrel.

This is just the barrel as an example since you mentioned it. They technically don't manufacturer their own barrels beginning to end in-house but honestly the product would suffer if they did and you'd be hard pressed to get better with their method. I'd hardly call either approach wrong. It's more in who the maker of the rifle/upper/lower is and their reputation because their rep is earned in all the steps that go to make a paper hunter, a milspec worthy of government contract or something to a higher tier that is capable of more. In the end, you get what you pay for and it's just at drop in the bucket compared to what you spend on ammo and training to use the thing. Buy quality up front and have no doubts.

Summary: there are top tier rifles and then there's LMT and Noveske. They're expensive. There's a lengthy wait. They're worth it. If I could own only one AR15 for the rest of my life it would be one of those two w/o a doubt. If the world ends and I have to go mobile and grab only one rifle to get me through whatever lies outside it will be one of those manufacturers. I also have a PSA rifle that lives in a locked rifle rack in my Tacoma that I've put plenty of rounds through and know it well enough to trust my life to as well. I also know it's limitations and wouldn't ask more than it's capable of w/o expecting a failure. I have no problem recommending it to anyone on a budget as a decent rifle. Trying to put it or any other budget builder on the same level as top tier builders is a mistake though. What are your needs? Nothing above matters if you're just going to plink or poke holes in paper with it once or twice a year. It's like owning a Phantom that just sits in the garage. If you are in the thing you will quickly realize how it's better than a Camry. If you never use it or don't care about specifics and details you'll likely never see the difference so don't waste the money. This thread is more about the Impala which is still a good car and will get most to their destination on the budget they've outlined.