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Very noob lift questions from a new Tacoma owner.

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by TeeArghDee, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. Mar 16, 2016 at 8:31 AM
    #1
    TeeArghDee

    TeeArghDee [OP] New Member

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    Hey guys.

    I'm an owner of a 2015 Tacoma TRD Off Road and am hoping you can answer some simple questions that I can't quite wrap my head around.

    Full disclosure: I'm wanting to install a lift mainly for looks, but I want to do it right with quality parts that will benefit me when I decide to take the rig off road.

    So I've done a TON of research on this forum about lifting and have decided I want to install a suspension lift in the 2" to 2.5" range. I'm not ready for fully-adjustable Fox/Icon/King Coilovers, and I'm definitely not wanting to go spacers or blocks. Bilstein keeps popping out at me everywhere I look... namely the 5100's and 6112's.

    I've kind of narrowed down my choices to either 5100's with 885x coils or 6112's on the 3rd or 4th notch. Progressive AAL in the rear with 5100's.

    Now here come the questions. Again, I'm completely new to lifting and suspension, and prety green when it comes to offroading. If any of these questions are too stupid, feel free to call me dense and put me in my place:

    1) In what ways does a suspension lift benefit the truck's performance off road besides giving a little better ground clearance? I know a lot of people install them for looks (like me) but is the main purpose of upgrading to lifted aftermarket suspension to sit you up higher and allow for bigger tires?

    2) Does adding aftermarket shocks/coils (like 5100s or 6112s) increase wheel travel or reduce it?

    3) Does adding an AAL with longer shocks add more droop or flex to the rear suspension or reduce it?

    4) How important are aftermarket bump stops?

    5) How bad will on-road performance suffer by adding aftermarket off-road suspension, mainly in terms of driver comfort?

    6) This is really specific, but how is it that 6112's could possibly give a better ride over 5100/885x combo? The 6112s use a spring that's stiffer and being preloaded to achieve lift. The 5100's have the same valving with a non-preloaded 590# coil spring. I can't wrap my head around how the 6112's could be better riding. Just wondering if they're worth the extra cost or not.


    Sorry in advance and thanks in advance.
     
    DustStorm4x4 likes this.
  2. Mar 16, 2016 at 8:43 AM
    #2
    smmarine

    smmarine Well-Known Member

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    I would do 5100s with coils and new rear lifted rear leaf packs. Also, since your 4wd, you'll need a front diff drop, you'll need a bracket to change the location of your rear brake proportioning valve, and you may get some driveline vibes and need to buy some shims for the drivetrain if you do. I've also read 2nd gens also have a front bushing people change when they lift cause it avoids vibrations.
     
    TeeArghDee[OP] likes this.
  3. Mar 16, 2016 at 8:46 AM
    #3
    Chasemitchell

    Chasemitchell Well-Known Member

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    6112's are a really nice ride. I have mine set at the 3rd notch, and the ride seems better than stock, also the 3rd notch leveled my truck.
     
    TeeArghDee[OP] likes this.
  4. Mar 16, 2016 at 8:54 AM
    #4
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    None yet, starting over!! OME lift w/ Dakars & 885's Remote Start w/ window control
    Welcome to TacomaWorld!!

    Having been recently in your shoes, and also not really knowing much about this stuff and mainly wanting it for looks, I can only answer one question but given your full disclosure statement, I personally think its the most important one...

    5. I recently installed an OME kit with 885's and Dakar leafs, and personally I think it rides like a dream right now... way better than the stock ride (2006 stock components, no TSB leaf & nearly 220k miles on all of them).
    I will also say that from what I understand if you're not off-roading, you won't need aftermarket bump stops (#4, this was a question I asked @YotaDan at Wheeler's and his answer was not needed) and that from what I can recall reading here on TW, a suspension lift doesn't increase your ground clearance (#1)... but allows for bigger tires (which does increase it).

    I kept going back and forth on how to do what, whether I wanted to go the Blisten route somehow or if I wanted to spend the money on the OME kit, and in the end back in January when I had the cash in hand, I found the kit on AutoAnything for 20% off and bringing the kit down to under $1,000 (final overnight shipping price was $1,002) and that settled everything. Now I would warn anyone looking to buy from AA from here to sunday and back to buy elsewhere after having dealt with them, saving that $250 over other places would give good reason that they were worth the trouble.

    I installed the kit myself, and while I'm good with cars I'm nowhere near home-mechanic level (former car stereo installer). I do my own oil changes and plugs and that kind of stuff no problem. Installing the suspension wasn't terribly difficult, I think that if you know how to turn a wrench, it's not too bad. It does take a serious amount of physical strength and ingenuity to get the OME shocks and coils placed in the front, but nothing two guys and a crowbar couldn't do.
     
  5. Mar 16, 2016 at 9:02 AM
    #5
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Welcome to TW! Looks like you have done a bunch of research for your first post! :thumbsup:

    I would suggest sticking closer to the 2" range to avoid needing UCAs for proper alignment numbers. Are you planning on running 265/75R16s with the lift? 1" over stock? That would be my recommendation. It is the largest tire to run without rubbing that requires trimming of the truck.

    1) Yes, it allows it to sit up higher for better approach/departure/breakover angles and allow for larger tires for greater ground clearance, but also to allow for better control off road. The stock suspension will be softer which will bottom out more easily off road and a good suspension should give you increased suspension travel, not just additional lift.

    2) I do not know if 5100s increase travel (they don't decrease it), but the 6112s do increase travel. There is a supporting hardware pack for the Baja Pro system you can order separately that have the reduced bump stops and rear brake line extension brackets to support the extended travel of the 6112s and 5165s.

    3) Adding a progressive AAL with longer shocks may not add more droop, as you are essentially utilizing some of that droop for lift as the axle is now riding 1.5" lower than before. This pairs well with the 5165s as they are about 1.5" longer travel than stock. So the droop is about the same, but the travel (flex) is extended.

    4) As mentioned above, I'd suggest the Baja hardware pack from Toyota TRD for the modified bump stops and rear brake line extension brackets to support extended travel. The modified bump stops are not critical, it will just reduce travel from what it could be if you had them.

    5) IMO the factory OR suspension was a bit soft and spongy, running a good aftermarket suspension should make it a little firmer. My Baja setup is running 650lb coils and the Icon Progressive AAL in rear with overloads removed, makes the truck feel like a Porsche on the street. Stock front springs are 550lbs. I like it far better. But it is all personal preference. Doing things the wrong way with spacer lifts will make the truck ride terrible.

    6) A slightly stiffer spring does not mean worse ride. It is a matter of preference, a really soft ride feels sloppy to me. Obviously a ultra stiff ride like spaces we all can agree is bad. The 6112s have a larger shock body and greater capacity for better performance. But I have no first hand experience comparing the two directly.

    I am running the Baja Pro suspension with the progressive AAL rear, which is based on the 6112 body and 5165 rears:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/baja-tx-pro-kit-icon-aal.385619/

    Diff drops are not needed on the 2nd gen when keeping to a mild lift. Driveline vibes do vary from truck to truck, staying with a 1.5" progressive AAL I did not get any and most do not.
     
    TeeArghDee[OP] likes this.
  6. Mar 16, 2016 at 9:05 AM
    #6
    geekhouse23

    geekhouse23 The "Liftman" - @DrFunker

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    1) In what ways does a suspension lift benefit the truck's performance off road besides giving a little better ground clearance? I know a lot of people install them for looks (like me) but is the main purpose of upgrading to lifted aftermarket suspension to sit you up higher and allow for bigger tires?

    Smoother ride and ground clearance for off road situations. A lift doesn't necessarily mean you are able to run bigger tars. While it helps, technically you can run 35's on stock suspension if you cut a ton out of the fender, wheel wells, and cab mounts etc. Even installing 285's (32.8" tires) I still had to cut a good amount in order to turn the wheels lock to lock.


    2) Does adding aftermarket shocks/coils (like 5100s or 6112s) increase wheel travel or reduce it?

    Length of the shock should be taken into account here. Coils and springs affect the shocks dampening abilities.

    3) Does adding an AAL with longer shocks add more droop or flex to the rear suspension or reduce it?

    Again, see above answer. Coils and springs help with dampening and load capacities.

    4) How important are aftermarket bump stops?

    VERY! You need new, longer bumpstops when you lift your vehicle.


    5) How bad will on-road performance suffer by adding aftermarket off-road suspension, mainly in terms of driver comfort?

    It will be stiffer on road. But, these are not Cadillac's. I know companies like ARB/Old Man Emu have shocks designed for either on or off road applications.

    6) This is really specific, but how is it that 6112's could possibly give a better ride over 5100/885x combo? The 6112s use a spring that's stiffer and being preloaded to achieve lift. The 5100's have the same valving with a non-preloaded 590# coil spring. I can't wrap my head around how the 6112's could be better riding. Just wondering if they're worth the extra cost or not.

    Don't have much experience or research on the 6112's.
     
    TeeArghDee[OP] likes this.
  7. Mar 16, 2016 at 9:38 AM
    #7
    Bluegrass Taco

    Bluegrass Taco Politically incorrect low tech redneck

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    First off, the only stupid question is the one left unasked.....

    A great deal of opinions regarding suspension is fact based. Likewise, a lot is very subjective and wide open to personal preference.

    "Benefits" of lifting a truck range from better looks, to more ground clearance, to tire clearance, to more travel, etc....

    There are numerous modifications that work in conjunction with a lift that can add (or reduce) travel. (ie, aftermarket bump stops, shackle flips, aftermarket upper and lower control arms, etc) The goal is more often than not to increase travel, but just as important, to make the suspension more compliant throughout the full range of travel.

    Commonly, AAL's extend travel more in extreme "down" but reduce somewhat the upwards travel. Not a hard and fast rule, but a common occurrence. The limiting point of upwards travel is USUALLY the bump stop, but a very stiff leaf can result in the bump stop never being reached. YMMV.

    In the case of the suspension I put on my truck, on road performance (ie; ride quality) is vastly IMPROVED over stock. Granted, a portion of that was the fact I was replacing stock shocks that had 83,000 miles of wear and tear on them with a new shock that is a much better shock from the get-go.....But....a big part is the fact I put in new coils that are much more compliant even with their added length, as well as a quality AAL that stiffened the rear end just enough to take out the "bouncy" feel of the stock leaves alone. The truck rode "OK" with stock coils/shocks/leaves. It rides incredibly smooth now, both at low speeds AND higher "interstate" speeds.

    I'm by no means an expert on the subject of 6112's, but, from what I can learn from people who've had them, the only real advantage is the ease of adjustability.

    BTW, I'm using 5100's, (set @ 0") 885X's, Deavers 2" AAL.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  8. Mar 16, 2016 at 10:44 AM
    #8
    TeeArghDee

    TeeArghDee [OP] New Member

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    Wow, thank you guys so much for the quick and extremely detailed responses. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

    I expected to have a ton of follow-up questions, but honestly I have none. I think that answers everything.

    Based upon these responses, my plan is as follows:
    • Bilstein 6112's on setting #3 (~2" Lift)
    • Wheeler's or Headstrong Progressive 3 Leaf w/Overload Removed (~1.5" Lift)
    • Bilstein 5125 Extended Length Rear Shocks
    • 1/4" Spacer for Driver's Side Lean
    • Wheeler's Bump Stops or Baja Hardware Pack
    May need: 3 degree pinion shim.

    Won't need: differential drop kit.

    Again, thank everyone so much for their responses. You guys are great.
     
    1truckdriver and Bluegrass Taco like this.
  9. Mar 16, 2016 at 10:46 AM
    #9
    Bluegrass Taco

    Bluegrass Taco Politically incorrect low tech redneck

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    All good choices Good luck and post pictures!
     
  10. Mar 16, 2016 at 10:47 AM
    #10
    TeeArghDee

    TeeArghDee [OP] New Member

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    Actually, I do have one more question:

    Do you guys recommend installing a lift while the truck is still under the 2yr/25k mile warranty, or wait until the warranty runs out?

    I'm not sure if it would be better to install it while under warranty so that the dealer could potentially help me address issues or wait until after the warranty to prevent the dealer from pointing any fingers at a lift kit installation as a cause of malfunction.
     
  11. Mar 16, 2016 at 10:49 AM
    #11
    geekhouse23

    geekhouse23 The "Liftman" - @DrFunker

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    The law protects vehicle owners. The Magnusson-Moss act makes it illegal for an auto manufacturer or auto dealer to void a warranty just because a vehicle has been modified. The only way that a vehicle warranty can be effected is if the lift or leveling kit is the direct cause of a failure.

    http://www.tacomahq.com/66/tacoma-leveling-lift-kit/
     
  12. Mar 16, 2016 at 10:51 AM
    #12
    Bluegrass Taco

    Bluegrass Taco Politically incorrect low tech redneck

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    I've got mixed emotions on that subject. So much would depend on how cooperative your dealer is.

    The only advice I give people on what order to follow is to do just the lift, then evaluate. Wait a while before making major changes in tires or wheels. This way you can more easily identify where a problem is. Too often a tire issue can appear as a suspension problem, or vice versa.

    I rarely buy new trucks anymore. Last few have been low mileage lease returns with 90 day warranties.
     
  13. Mar 16, 2016 at 10:58 AM
    #13
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The kit is almost identical to the Pro kits, with the AAL exception. I have a 2015 and did not wait. It won't void any warranty unless they can prove the kit caused the failure. Many dealers install worse spacer lifts at the dealer on brand new trucks.

    Also your warranty should be 3yr/36k bumpber to bumper or 5yr/60k powertrain.
     
    TeeArghDee[OP] likes this.
  14. Mar 16, 2016 at 2:14 PM
    #14
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    None yet, starting over!! OME lift w/ Dakars & 885's Remote Start w/ window control
    Unless I'm wrong...
    • Bilstein 6112's on setting #3 (~2" Lift) $660 from Wheelers
    • Wheeler's or Headstrong Progressive 3 Leaf w/Overload Removed (~1.5" Lift) $160
    • Bilstein 5125 Extended Length Rear Shocks $175
    • 1/4" Spacer for Driver's Side Lean $10
    • TOTAL = $1,005
    OR

    $1,150

    Curiousity, but is there a reason not to go with the kit for an extra $150?
     
  15. Mar 16, 2016 at 2:20 PM
    #15
    Chasemitchell

    Chasemitchell Well-Known Member

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    You do not need the 1/4" spacer.
     
  16. Mar 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM
    #16
    geekhouse23

    geekhouse23 The "Liftman" - @DrFunker

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    If you don't want the driver's side lean..
     
  17. Mar 16, 2016 at 2:32 PM
    #17
    Highplainsdriftr

    Highplainsdriftr Well-Known Member

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    Leer 100R cap. K&N air filter. Bilstein 6112. Bilstein 5160.

    http://www.tacomahq.com/66/tacoma-leveling-lift-kit/
     
  18. Mar 18, 2016 at 4:56 AM
    #18
    TeeArghDee

    TeeArghDee [OP] New Member

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    On the Toyota Owners website, it says: "Sep 28, 2017 or 25,000 miles, whichever comes first"

    Is that not standard?

    That's a good point.

    Correct me if I'm wrong though, but I've read in multiple threads that there's an issue with OME front shocks that cause a really bad clunk when traversing speedbumps or potholes. Bilstein shocks have a longer shaft and therefore don't experience this problem.

    Also I've read on a few websites that OME shocks don't work on the rear of a 2015 Tacoma.

    I just kind of felt like going with my own 6112 kit would get me better shocks and a more comfortable ride at a slightly cheaper price.

    Am I wrong??


    And thanks again everyone for the super helpful replies.
     
  19. Mar 18, 2016 at 6:10 AM
    #19
    Chasemitchell

    Chasemitchell Well-Known Member

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    get the 6112's I've had no issues with them. For the lift you want i think this lift would be the best for you.
     
  20. Mar 18, 2016 at 8:18 AM
    #20
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Where are you located? That is not standard, 3yr/36k bumper to bumper is standard.

    Correct, people have reported clunking from OME shocks topping out over speedbumps.

    Correct, OME shocks are not recommended on the rear of 2015 models due to a design change. Some people can make them work, others cannot. I originally looked at this route before being advised against it by Toytec due to the rear shock issue. Their suggestion was to mis-match front and rear shocks, using BOSS or 5100s in the rear. I did not like that idea.
     

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