Powertrain warranty discussion with local dealership service writer.

So ... I stopped by my local dealership to discuss having a set of 5100s installed, just to level the front up a little bit. I told him I wanted the dealership to do it so that I wouldn't have to worry about any powertrain warranty issues in the future. He interrupted me and said, "don't risk it" and began to lecture me on how Toyota Corp. would basically walk away from (deny) any powertrain warranty work on a vehicle that has been lifted, and how lifting a vehicle would cause bearing, CV, differential failure, blah, blah, blah. I told him I understood the risks to CVs, bearings etc, but I was more worried about big ticket items like engine, transmission, etc. He said again that Toyota Corp would walk away from any powertrain claims on lifted trucks. I asked him - just to clarify - was he saying that leveling my truck would completely void my powertrain warranty? He said, "basically, yes". I told him that I didn't think that was correct, and that there were laws in place that would not allow a manufacturer to deny warranty work unless the failure was directly caused by the aftermarket part. His response - "Are you going to pay a lawyer to fight Toyota over it???"

Wow! I couldn't believe what I was hearing! I questioned him further, and asked if they would deny a failed water pump, or worse, a catastrophically failed oil pump because I had an aftermarket set of shocks, even though he knew the suspension had nothing to do with the engine failure. He said, "That's a good question. I can't tell you what Toyota would do in that situation."

Don't that just give you a real warm, fuzzy feeling about powertrain warranties???!!! Needless to say, I doubt I'll be going back to that dealership for anything else. I think I'll be looking for another dealership that hopefully has a little less harsh understanding of how warranties work.

 

He isn't exactly wrong.

Sucks to hear, sure.. but that's reality. Modified trucks are a commitment in many other ways than buying parts.

 

So you asked him a question you clearly knew the answer to?

 

Not exactly ... Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 - The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage.

I see from your profile that you have 5100's @0.85 - you're telling me that if your engine turns loose for no apparent reason, that you don't expect them to fix it???

 

That's only applicable in court.

Which is what he said, if you involve an attorney and file against Toyota for warranty denial then they'd have to prove the reasons why.

Outside of a courtroom is has no value, which is what he said.

 

Several things.

1. Having a dealer install aftermarket products does not allow you to retain full factory warranty even though they installed it. If you have bearing issues after a lift, the dealer won't cover that even though they installed the new shocks.
2. If you're concerned about warranty, don't modify your vehicle.

 

Okay. Let's carry this a little further. Say you change your oil and use mobile one and a wix filter (aftermarket parts), and two weeks later your transmission implodes, would you not expect them to honor your warranty and fix the transmission? What's the difference?

 

I understand bearing issues wouldn't be covered if the lift caused problems ... I was asking him about other powertrain parts and he basically said "fully voided warranty".

 

We can ask what if all day long but that doesn't change reality, so I'm not going to debate things.

All we are saying is the dude might have delivered his answers poorly, but he had truths in all he said.

You can argue that all you want, but it doesn't change how the MMA works. Outside of court it means nothing.

Mod at your own risk.

 

there are "other" dealerships that aren't such....dicks. My dealership will install the trd pro shocks(read 5100's or 6112's - I haven't been able to determine which yet) you achieve a little lift and they will cover everything. So again, take it to another dealership.

 

This is a touchy situation. Any mods done actually puts burden of proof on the consumer and the warranty provider. You as the consumer take the risk of losing certain aspects of warranty due to mods, and the dealer does have to prove the mods caused the failure.
With that being said, if you did have a water pump failure do you think Toyota warranty dept. is going to ask if you have a lift, not very likely. They will cover the pump with no issues. Now if it comes to bearings or suspension, yes, that question may come up.
So, don't sweat It. Do your mods and accept the fact that you may void some but not all of your warranty.

 

Dealer doesn't have to prove anything.

Toyota does, and they will send an engineer to assess the issue, and look at the dealership who wrote the diagnosis. See the thread now on AFMurse's 2016 warranty denial for one example.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/help-lost-throttle-response.428765/



OP has a sky is falling issue, mentally saying a minor mod can cause a complete warranty denial and complex issue that will be blamed on the minor mod. That isn't the case. That aside, Toyota has a history of warranty denial for modified Tacoma's so far as this forum has shown in its various posts with people having the issue with warranty denial. The prevailing wisdom is, if you're going to modify things, you're also going to accept more liability. If you can't wrap your head around that or don't think it's fair, either don't modify, or figure at some point you MAY need litigation to stand your ground about a warranty denial.

Either way, you're going to cost yourself more money than just the parts you install, like I said before.

 

His is an extreme example.

@Sacrifice has been denied warranty coverage several times, and at one point at least, all he had was a plate bumper. Toyota dealership noted his truck was "heavily modified for offroad use," and Toyota said nope!

Stock suspension. Stock tires. Stock truck with minor bolt on mods.

 

Why would his warning you to be conservative on the issue make you want to avoid the dealer? Its not like he wouldn't try to get you approved for warranty work if you came in with it. The dealer still makes money on that service work (paid by toyota). He is just trying to save you some trouble. I guess since it is counter to the answer you wanted, you now think it is his fault?

 

Something like a creak or pop happening when you turn your steering wheel can be easily blamed on larger tires that take more effort to turn. Even a small lift changes your cv angles which the dealership can deny claims if they choose to. Dealerships can and will tell you to pound sand and do not have to prove anything to deny you a warranty claim.

 

I had a dealership service department install 5100s to level my 2014 Tacoma, since they owed me a favor for some shitty service my wife received with her vehicle. The manager had it documented as installing customer-supplied front shocks and made no mention of a lift. A short time later my truck developed the common front end vibration so I took the truck back in and they fixed it under warranty, no issues or debate. My advice...shop around.

 

It has nothing to do with what I want. It has to do with the fact that I always thought Magnuson-Moss protected people from manufacturers' weaseling out of warranty work by blaming it on something that had to be proven to have caused the problem first. I am thankful to DCSBFTMFW for pointing out that Toyota takes a rather drastic stance on warranty work. I was unaware of that. It will probably cause me to be more thoughtful of my mods, before I do them.

I guess I didn't know how lucky I had it. The dealer of my last truck (different brand) never gave me any problems with warranty work. They installed stuff for me, sometimes with a warning that it could cause problems with bearings, etc and that they might not be able to fix that problem under warranty if that problem arose. And they repaired other things under warranty without any questions as long as my aftermarket parts didn't cause problems.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was getting at. I am well aware that, if a suspension mod causes a bearing to go bad, that the dealer won't fix it under warranty. What I was getting at is that he basically said an aftermarket shock (5100) which was designed for my truck could cause my entire drivetrain warranty to be void. That is no different than saying the Monroe SensaTrac's I put on my Honda Accord void my warranty because they aren't original equipment.

I'm not worried about a bearing ... I'm worried about the transmission that shifts a million times over a 50 mile trip. I'm worried about the engine that's going from 1500 rpm to 5000 rpm a million times on a 50 mile trip because the transmission can't decide what gear it needs to be in. And yes, after reading about the plate bumper incident mentioned above ... I am starting to worry that Toyota could blame a catastrophic engine failure on a set of 5100's.

 

I wouldn't worry about shocks, shocks being blamed on engine or trans issues is pretty far fetched.

But, adding a lift like 5100s set with a preload might leave you open on things like vibes that weren't present before they were installed.

Some dealers are great, some are absolute shit - just assume Toyota will support their dealer when it comes down to it, so if you find a good dealer - don't worry so much.

This dealer isn't one I would recommend dealing with!

 

My dealer has this truck that they modified on the lot for sale $47,000! I asked him about the warranty and he said it did not void it.

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To reiterate what has been said, dealerships are fickle.

The local dealer (Dealer #1) wouldn't even look at the 2G TSB for suspension because I had BFG All-Terrains on and the blamed my vibrations on my "aggressive tires". I took it to a different dealer for some service (Dealer #2) and complained about the TSB for vibes as I had my winter wheel/tire setup (highway tread). They started to perform the TSB but I was left without a vehicle. When I inquired about a rental, which the dealer previously had stated I would receive, it must have annoyed someone, because I promptly got denied the TSB again for having the ARB. The service order stated that my front suspension was 1" lower than stock and thus ineligible.

I started having some wonky shifting issues (the standard 5th gear clunk, lock-unlock torque converter dance) so I brought it into Dealer #1 expecting to be rejected because at that point I had a lift installed (5100 @ 0.85 + Eibach 620# springs) and I ended up with a new transmission under warranty.

It's luck of the draw, unfortunately.