Steering instability. PLEASE help!

Hey folks,

I have searched and read posts like this for what seems like, hours and hours. I am yet to find anything solid accept the fact that unfortunately, this type of truck may just be unstable.

Problem:
After 7 months of owning the truck and multiple attempted fixes it just does not feel stable at higher speeds. I understand the truck has a rep for sloppier steering and the wind throwing her around but this just feels very off. The wheel tends to rock back and forth or pull to the left in the middle of a turn or even on nice patched highways at random and back at random. The problem was much worse when I first bought it and is 80% better but the truck is still grueling to drive longer distances.

I have driven modified Rangers, Falcons, Acuras, you name it, and have never felt a ride such as this.

Attempted Fixes:

• Removed the 3" blocks and returned truck to stock ride height.
• New set of American Racing Wheels and BFG KO2 tires at stock specs instead of the cheap wheels and GoodYear Wranglers on there when bought.
• New Bilstein 5100s all around
• Countless balancing of the the wheels and 3 alignments from 3 different shops
• Same 3 shops inspecting the entire front end.

The biggest improvement to me, felt like the last alignment that I had done. The guy took a long time to go over the numbers and "not just get the read out in the green". Any help at all, and you'll be my goddamn hero.

THANK YOU!!!

 

What do you consider higher speeds? Is the sway bar still on the truck? Post the sheet with alignment numbers.

 

is there any blocks on the front? also check your control arm bushings, steering stabilizer, tie rods, sway bar, ball joints etc. You could jack up the vehicle and see if anything wobbles and go from there. Could be your steering rack. any number of possibilities but you have to eliminate all of these. Also check for bubbles/tread separation on your tires.

 

Higher speeds would be about 50mph+
Much harder to tell at lower speeds.
Sway bar is still on the truck.
Here is my print out:

 

First, these trucks have rack & pinion steering (think sports car) so the steering is tighter not sloppier like you'd think.
Go back to the last guy that aligned your truck and have him try to get the caster as high as he can get it, 2.5 to 3.0 positive caster is where you want the numbers, 0 toe, 0 camber should make the truck drive better.
Next thing is to stop fighting the steering wheel, you'll find if you ease up on the wheel, the truck will drive "better" (for lack of a better discription).
When I bought my 06, I had the same thoughts about the truck as you, but I realized rite quick that you can't hold on to the wheel real tight (and I came from a buick century w/ r&p steering) which compared to the tacoma was sloppy now that I'm used to the truck.
Moral of the story is, if you ease up a little on the wheel it will move around a little but stay in it's lane when you get the alignment rite.

Hope that helps and makes sense too you.

Didn't see your #'s on alignment before I started typing, now I see that, your right to left numbers need to be closer, you can't have 1.3 caster left and 2.4 right caster and expect your truck to drive good, you've got one side fighting with the other.

 

Bad caster # on the left side. Possibility something there is bent. No alignment tech should've let you go with that big a difference between left/right.

 

Interestingly enough is that the 2nd time I had the tuck aligned the caster was:
Caster - Left: 1.4 Right: 1.9

Yet the latest alignment drives the best (so far) with the numbers in the photo at:
Caster - Left: 1.3 Right: 2.4

You think something may be bent? No one has seemed to catch this. Why would they not mention this with the numbers, this upsets me.

Is there a caster number I should be shooting for?

 

Just my $0.02 ... and only for entertainment purposes. I have a full 3" of lift, steel bumpers, canopy and lots of shit in the truck. 33" tires with spacers. 0.9* of caster. Yes it can get a little tiresome to drive long distances, and as stated above, fighting the truck makes the trip longer. But i just relax, and let the truck do its thing. I do like to drive forest roads, and I ride off road motorbikes, so I am used to a vehicle doing its own thing. I feel that at 0.9* caster, the truck is safe enough to drive, even though it can do the bump and wiggle from time to time.

Our other car is an AWD subaru, which is super tight. So I know how you feel when it comes to loose steering.

where was i going with this?

forgot. Good luck.

 

I'm saying it's a possibility. I know I would be underneath it looking for something like that. After 3 alignments and not much of a change in the ride you need to find a solution. Did you speak with the guys that did the alignments and tell them your issue.

 

It's your caster. I'm guessing your lower control arm/ alignment hardware is seized. I just had my LCAs cut out and replaced. My caster was higher than that and I had similar symptoms. A narrow tire on stock rims will greatly reduce the symptoms. The LCA job with parts and labor will cost between $400 and $800 depending on how you source the parts - that's why I mentioned the tires.

A 235, 245, or 255 width tire is what you want if going this route. The skinnier you go, the more it'll help. Rims that push the tire outward magnify the symptoms too.

 

Combine sparkystaco's and 3coma's posts and you're where you need to be. More specifically,total toe-in: .02 to zero degrees;
camber -0.1 to +0.1; camber +2.5 to +3.0. Right & Left Camber cross no more than .2 degrees and R & L Caster also no more than .2 cross. Your pickup should then handle well, steer straight and tires will wear evenly across the tread. About all else you can do is possibly add a rear stabilizer bar, but about the only time I miss one is at speeds above about 75 mph with crosswinds or in wind gusts. Don't let the alignment tech get by with simply setting the toe and calling it an alignment. The above specs. will work on any 2005 & up Tacoma. If yours is raised, you might not can reach the above numbers, but I would not settle for less than 2.0 degrees camber (.2 cross max.) nor less than -0.1 nor more than +0.3 caster (.2 cross max.). If your tire size is vastly different from 245x75R16 (stock) will these same numbers work? I don't know.

 

What is your suspension set up now?

You stated it had 3" blocks, assuming you meant spacers? Are they still off? All suspension stock? You only stated back to stock ride height.

Secondly, I would have never left the parking lot if I was handed that alignment print out. He adjusted your toe, if that. I say if that because those toe numbers look a little odd to me. Was your steering wheel off center aside from fighting the left pull?

I would shake down your own front end, jack the front wheel up by the lower control arm so it is off the ground. Grab the wheel at top and bottom and push/pull then pull/push. This will check your upper ball joints, this could also check hub bearings but you can visually watch the upper ball joint for movement if any play exists. Doing the same thing left to right will check tie rods(inner and outer). With the wheel still raised, stick a pry bar under the tire and pry up and down watching the lower ball joint for up and down movement. Each of these movements will be wiggling movements checking for play if that makes sense.

Inspect your upper and lower control arm bushings. Sometimes you can have someone get in the truck, tires on the ground(engine off and in park, steering wheel unlocked) and have them turn the wheel back and forth while underneath watching the bushings for movement.

Without knowing your current alignment specs I would take those you posted as having a moderate pull left. Might not seem as bad due to road crown, but any variations in crown you're going to feel that tug left or will want to yank right as you are aleady fighting the pull to begin with.

Have you tried a dealership? If there is something wrong they won't hesitate to try to sell you something. Make them take you out to the shop and show you the worn parts, decide then whether to wrench on it yourself or take back to a previous shop.

 

Assuming all components are functioning properly and not worn or bent......... Align in the following order.

Camber, as close to 0 as possible. Matching both sides.

Caster. Have them set max both sides. If the numbers are different, lower the high one to match the other, so they are equal while retaining Camber already set.

Toe should be 0 or maybe a touch of toe in. Again, matching side to side is best.

Any trammeling or such after that will be either surface conditions, tire issues or wheel/tire fitment issues. Contrary to popular opinion, bigger is not always better.

As a side note, tire/wheel combos do not impact alignment. Alignment can be done with them off the vehicle. The hub is the 'control' position you are aligning.

However, they absolutely can impact actual responsiveness, even with a perfect alignment.

 

Slightly OT, but would those numbers above apply to setups with minor lift like 3" and below? This is good info since I need to get my alignment done after new tires (265/75/16)

 

Numbers should be the same for alignment regardless of lift or lower. Again, it's the position of the hubs relative to the road and steering geometry.

If they cannot be achieved, additional specialty parts could correct. Or you may live with a bit of a mess, but look cool parked.

 

That is complete nonsense. I've never driven any vehicle (and have driven a lot) that was anywhere close to as sure-footed as a Tacoma.

It has no such "rep".

That is highly unusual.

Those "fixes" look like a good start.
I do have a few questions for you about them though;
1) Are the replacement wheels at *factory offset*? Wheels of different offset could interfere with steering and stability.
2) Are the replacement shock absorbers adjustable height? What do you have them set for? What SPRINGS do you have on them?
3) Are there any other obviously aftermarket components on the front suspension or steering? Maybe upper control arms?

Your truck is somewhat old (10 years), and with an unknown history. There is a possibility of worn steering or suspension parts. You should go over everything very carefully.

Also note that things like ball joints could be loose when at an angle for holding up the vehicle's weight, but appear tight when lifted (and suspension is extended).

What is the condition of the SWAY BAR? This is a big metal bar that runs between the two sides of the suspension in order to somewhat tie them together. It helps to keep the vehicle planted while in a turn. Some people have been known to REMOVE them in order to improve off-road suspension articulation, but this will cause an increase in ON-road instability.