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OFFICIAL 2nd gen 4x4 front differential bearing vibration thread

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by BenWA, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. Aug 22, 2016 at 12:09 AM
    #3661
    ndmak

    ndmak Well-Known Member

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    Like has been said, the job can take a couple hours. I replaced upper/lower ball joints, wheel bearing/hub, cv axle and needle bearing all at one time so I was there for several hours. The needle bearing removal/bushing install was probably the easiest part of the job. It is a little tricky to get the puller to pull just right but not too bad. I would just do it all at once.
     
  2. Aug 25, 2016 at 3:37 PM
    #3662
    timbaland1311

    timbaland1311 Active Member

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    2009 white Tacoma TRD with 3" OME lift kit, 855 coils, and dakar springs, total chaos UCA's, Nurf steps, 50" Led upper windshield mount radial light bar, 17inch SCS Ray 10 matte black, Cooper STT PRO 285/70/17, blacked out badges, tinted.
    So I have the vibration at 20-30 and installed the and still have it. I also put in it 4x4 and still vibrates. Any ideas? image.jpg
     
  3. Aug 27, 2016 at 12:56 AM
    #3663
    RCKYOTA

    RCKYOTA Member

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    Well looks like there are quite a few of us. Just got done replacing both wheelbearings and it still sounds exactly the same. Guess I shall dig into the front diff next. Im reading about this bushing... so it replaces the needle bearing ? The cv just rides on metal ? I didnt see the link to purchase this upgrade. Also anyone else deal with exhaust leaks starting to sound like a pile !
     
  4. Aug 27, 2016 at 5:07 AM
    #3664
    TRoss

    TRoss Web Wheeler

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    1.5" 5100 Billie lift, 1.5" AAL w/5125's, 265/75/16 Duratracs on SR8's, ECG diff bushing
    Yes. So happy I did it. Thought it was wheel bearing too...nope...drivers side diff needle needle bearing. Give East Coast Gear a call...
     
  5. Aug 27, 2016 at 11:39 AM
    #3665
    Dgibson529

    Dgibson529 Well-Known Member

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    http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-8536125-toyota-8-clamshell-bushing-eliminates-needle-bearing.html


    buy this bushing and install it. super easy to install. move the knuckle, remove cv, pull needle bearing out (this is the part that will take the most time) and install new bushing. refill diff fluid if necessary. good to go. I was getting a strong vibration after my lift and immediately after I installed the bushing it went away.
     
  6. Aug 31, 2016 at 8:04 PM
    #3666
    Michael66

    Michael66 Member

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    My 2015 Offroad started the "rumble strip" vibration after 5k miles. Dealer told me it is because of my 1.5 inch front lift and that I'd need to remove the lift before they would evaluate. I'm waiting to see if it gets worse. I found that preventing the front axles from turning in 2wd (even light string will do it) stops the noise. Since my driving is 99 percent in 2wd, I could leave the axles tied with string, since the string will easily break if I switch to 4wd. The question is, will preventing them from turning cause abnormal wear in the hubs or elsewhere? If not, seems like a free, easy, though absurd, solution.
     
  7. Aug 31, 2016 at 8:18 PM
    #3667
    TXTaco13

    TXTaco13 Taco/T4R Enthusiast

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    Highly unlikely that 1.5 up front would do that. There are guys who have bigger lifts that have been replaced under warranty. It's a defective part, period. The dealer just doesn't want to deal with it.
     
  8. Sep 1, 2016 at 8:09 AM
    #3668
    Michael66

    Michael66 Member

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    Well, that's what I thought, but haven't forced the issue. I think the CV joints are actually straighter now than from the factory. Problem is, from what I've been reading in this forum, the issue is apparently the result of a design defect, so that replacing parts (bearings) with the same just postpones the inevitable for a few more thousand miles.
     
  9. Sep 1, 2016 at 9:24 AM
    #3669
    tacoma04

    tacoma04 Laissez les bons temps rouler

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    Bruce
    Northern Louisiana
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    What a difference! Replaced the needle bearing with the ECGS bushing and no more noise! And only cost me the bushing, a new seal, and gear oil. I made the bushing removal tool from items I had in the garage. Thanks for all the great info in this thread from everyone.
    I'm so happy :bananadance:
     
  10. Sep 1, 2016 at 9:13 PM
    #3670
    Michael66

    Michael66 Member

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    Sounds good now.. but will the bushings hold up over time? Have you examined the needle bearings, and can you tell me (us) the nature of the failure? That is, why they seem to be ok initially, then go bad? Were the bearings breaking, overheating, scoring the races, loosening, etc? Part of my reason for asking is wondering if the noise/problem stabilizes or will continue to worsen.
     
  11. Sep 4, 2016 at 5:39 AM
    #3671
    tacoma04

    tacoma04 Laissez les bons temps rouler

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    I can tell you what I saw, but I can't answer your ultimate question of why it failed. The needle bearing appeared to be fine. It rolled smoothly and I saw no breakage, discoloration, or scoring. There was a lot of play or as we used to call it "slop" when I moved the cv axle. With the new bushing the play is reduced to a very small amount. It really did do like the video of Chase at ECGS measuring the play, but I don't have anything to measure it.

    The cv axle had no scoring or anything on it. So I really don't know why the play developed. I don't know if the cage the needle bearings sit in wore or what. I did drain my diff fluid after installing the bushing and nothing abnormal in the fluid or on the magnet.

    The bushing is longer than the needle bearing and that provides more surface area for support of the cv axle. That should help long run durability.
     
  12. Sep 7, 2016 at 7:27 AM
    #3672
    wafflroo

    wafflroo Well-Known Member

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    May I borrow that tool? Ready to PayPal for shipping.
     
  13. Sep 8, 2016 at 8:56 PM
    #3673
    Michael66

    Michael66 Member

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    Any mechanics out there? Still wondering what would happen if I prevented the front axles from rotating while in 2wd. When my old (89 Tacoma) manual hubs were unlocked, there was no significant friction and the axles remained stationary. But the automatic hubs, when disengaged, apparently create enough friction to turn the axles. Do they turn 1:1 or slower? The real question is, would there be heat/wear generated in the hubs if the axles were prevented from rotating? Or, is it possible the axles are meant to rotate to keep the gears lubricated in the transfer case?
     
  14. Sep 24, 2016 at 11:00 AM
    #3674
    flying_waitacoma

    flying_waitacoma Well-Known Member

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    Hey everyone. After read this I decided to check to see if I had slope and noise. My truck is not lifted yet but found the cv axle has the same amount of slope as in the video as well as the growling noise around 30-45 mph, the noise to me sounds like I have mud tires. I thought the noise was normal until I found this thread.
    I just got home from the dealership, they said it is normal and could not hear anything wrong. Obviously we all know it is not, I am going to contact Toyota- not sure if anyone has had any success but I'm done visiting my dealership and their silly responses.

    If anyone has the removal tool, I'd like to borrow it. Ordering the bushing.
     
  15. Sep 24, 2016 at 11:33 AM
    #3675
    flying_waitacoma

    flying_waitacoma Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Found some on ebay for $10 with shipping.

    +1!
     
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  16. Sep 26, 2016 at 3:19 AM
    #3676
    Hardscrabble

    Hardscrabble Well-Known Member

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    A little of this and a little of that.
    I'm reading this entire thread. Sub'd.
     
  17. Sep 28, 2016 at 10:21 AM
    #3677
    MTopp

    MTopp Professional bear handler

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    Anyone want to borrow the ECGS removal tool and the race/bearing install tool? I am sending it out to another member on Saturday I hope, then they could send it to the next person. Send me a message if interested please.
     
  18. Sep 28, 2016 at 10:35 AM
    #3678
    MTopp

    MTopp Professional bear handler

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    Here's some good information for people finding this thread: taken from http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/6...front-differential-bearing-vibration-tsb.html

    "The New Toyota TSB

    After 10 years of production Toyota has finally issued a TSB. T-SB-0026-15, dated May 15, 2015 is applicable to 2005-2015 Tacomas, 2007-2014 FJ Cruisers and 2004-2015 4Runners. TSB's are not safety recalls but rather guidance documents intended to help their technicians identify problems. The TSB is attached to this post:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...#post-10828880

    Comparison

    I took some pics of the old needle bearing, the TSB bearing, and the ECGS bushing. I also took some quick measurements and made a few observations:
    [​IMG] This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.
    DSC01718_zpsxukkvnn4_d7ca6ba29719cc9b9394624ba040984dd951f98d.jpg

    upload_2016-9-28_13-34-2.pngupload_2016-9-28_13-34-2.png
    Report this image

    [​IMG] This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.
    DSC01720_zpsypntlcpw_0230679eb412821f97d7c034ee721d5bf37dfdb1.jpg

    upload_2016-9-28_13-34-2.pngupload_2016-9-28_13-34-2.png
    Report this image

    Left to Right: Old Needle Bearing, TSB Needle Bearing, ECGS Bushing

    Old Bearing - 90364-35010
    Manufacturer: Koyo
    Length: approx. 25.8 mm overall
    Number of Needles: 34
    Length of Needles: approx. 19.8 mm
    Material: the cage is a seamless dark gray steel similar in appearance to spring steel. The outside housing appears to be a chrome steel.
    Comments: IIRC the one I originally removed had a plastic cage. I no longer have it to confirm. Otherwise I still have several purchased in 2011 that have the dark gray steel cages.

    New TSB Bearing - 90364-35008
    Manufacturer: Nachi
    Length: approx. 25.8 mm overall
    Number of Needles: 34
    Length of Needles: approx. 18.5 mm
    Material: the cage is steel similar in appearance to either a chrome steel or stainless and has a seam. The seam is micro-welded. The outside housing appears to be a chrome steel.
    Comments: It is curious that there is a new manufacturer and that the needles are actually shorter than the previous needle bearing. Also, the cage the needles ride in appears to be a different kind of steel than the previous.
    There is no history of durability of this part yet.

    ECGS Bushing - T8CS-Bushing
    Manufacturer: unknown
    Length: approx. 31.1 mm overall
    Length of Bushing Contact Surface with the CV Journal: approx. 28.5 mm.
    Material: sintered bronze with PTFE layer in a steel housing. A special tool for removal of the old needle bearing without removal of the differential was also developed.
    Comments: How durable is the bushing? This question has been in the back of my mind since doing the replacement. ECGS claims it to be the life of the truck. FWIW, as of mid-Sept., 2015, this person, screen name
    qynla, states he has >100,000 miles since installation without issue
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...#post-10716509

    I had been periodically monitoring mine with a dial gauge. It had developed some initial looseness between the bushing and journal on the CV shaft as the two "broke in" but it seems to have stabilized and I quit monitoring after about 18,000 mi. IIRC when I sold the truck.

    Is There a Needle Bearing on the New Trucks Too?? - The Parts Catalog
    Yes, sadly. A dealer was kind enough to allow me to peruse what exists of the parts catalog for the new trucks. As of a few days ago the manual for the new trucks was clearly preliminary and appeared to be in a sort of "Draft" form. I can only state what I believe the part number is as this information is subject to change when new info. becomes available.

    Also, it does not appear that the old needle bearing has gone away at all and you can still end up with the thing. The TSB assigns our old crummy needle bearing to the 4Runners, and the Tacoma and FJ Cruisers get the new part number...well, kind of...

    It is true that the TSB gives a new part number (90364-35008) but in the PNC parts catalog I saw one is given a choice of either a Type 'A' and Type 'B' bearing. This has been done before when there were more than one supplier for a particular part. For example, up until about 2013 the 2nd Generation manual transmission trucks had either Type 'A' (Luk) or Type 'B' (Aisin)clutches installed during production and for replacement parts. So the types could be different suppliers and different designs.

    In terms of the new trucks I suspect the new part is probably the TSB bearing. But Toy has been caught before not putting TSB parts in production runs. A good example of this is the infamous upper intermediate steering shaft where the old crummy part is still being installed during production five years later. One has to ask for an upgraded one by TSB part number in order to get it."

    TSB:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  19. Sep 28, 2016 at 11:10 AM
    #3679
    flying_waitacoma

    flying_waitacoma Well-Known Member

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    This is awesome information. I saw you gave specs for original needle bearing, tsb bearing, and ecgs bushing. Were the original and tsb same in thickness?

    What would you or anyone else suggest?
    Would the tsb needle bearing get the cv axle to the appropriate amount of play/slope?

    Thanks everyone!
     
  20. Sep 28, 2016 at 11:23 AM
    #3680
    MTopp

    MTopp Professional bear handler

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    I didn't make that post/write-up, simply found it from another toyota forum and reposted here for the information. I too wonder if the thickness is different like the ECGS counterpart.

    All I can suggest is if you're under warranty, get the TSB done or get whatever the actual problem is fixed under warranty.

    The TSB is supposed to be a fix for the front differential vibes which is caused by the play/slack, so I'd figure the TSB must reduce the play/slack in some way. Many members in this thread have had luck with the TSB bearing fixing this issue, but the longevity of the TSB fix has not been proven yet.

    As stated in the article, from what I've read, and from personal experience, the ECGS bushing works great. There have been reports of 100,000 miles on it and many members here have anywhere from 5,000 to 65,000 miles+ on the ECGS bushing and its been fine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016

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