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When I step hard on the brakes, my Taco skids. ABS does not engage.

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Clyde Crashcup, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Feb 17, 2017 at 7:11 AM
    #21
    Larueminati

    Larueminati Well-Known Member

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    Yup, the off-road brakes are either not engaged or full lock it seems. I'm light on the brakes too, original pads still had half the meat at 60,000 miles.
     
  2. Feb 17, 2017 at 7:46 AM
    #22
    ejl923

    ejl923 Well-Known Member

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    Im pretty easy on brakes, but my dog's been in the front seat, by accident, a couple times, especially when wearing big boots
     
  3. Feb 17, 2017 at 8:06 AM
    #23
    Hugh Morron

    Hugh Morron Manic Mechanic

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    Funny I tried the same thing on an ice covered road. ABS more than doubled the stopping distance.
     
  4. Feb 17, 2017 at 8:09 AM
    #24
    PNW BlueReaper

    PNW BlueReaper Slowly but Surely

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    Aaron
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    Yup, i've experienced it before then. I remember hearing a grinding noise while braking in the snow.
     
  5. Feb 17, 2017 at 8:18 AM
    #25
    nd4spdbh

    nd4spdbh Well-Known Member

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    this whole abs debate has been brought up many many times before. 99% of the time a vehicle is on dry paved roads where abs is far superior than your average joes ability to brake. While abs might increase stopping distance vs threshold braking, not many know how to do it properly, and if abs wasnt a thing you would have people slamming their brakes and loosing control of their vehicle. Thats probably the #1 reason for abs is the ability to slow down a vehicle in a panic while still being able to turn.

    Now on slick surfaces (dirt road, ice / snow covered road) Yes abs will increase your stopping distance quite a bit, but if you have to panic stop on a surface like that where the increased stopping distance makes you hit someone... you are 100% following too close or going too fast for those conditions.


    Next, TRD OR vs the rest.... 09+ TRD OR 4x4's (and some pre 09 trucks with the VSC option) have an electric boosted master cylinder, capable of 2x the line pressures at the same pedal pressure compared to the vacuum boosted brakes of the of any other model. Those who are used to the squishy vacuum boosted setups dont know what your missing out on.... i hate the brakes on my dads 2wd taco.... such a squishy non firm feeling brake pedal.
     
  6. Feb 17, 2017 at 8:33 AM
    #26
    moondeath

    moondeath Well-Known Member

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    I hated the brakes on my off road. I don't want twice the amount of pressure applied to the brakes as I'm putting. I want the percentage that I'm applying to be put to the brakes. I by far prefer my sport brakes. What I directly apply to the brake pedal is exactly what is applied to the brakes, in terms my intended pressure.

    As for abs, on dry surfaces it's fine. On icy snowy road ways, it's horrible. Doesn't matter if your going as slow as a snail. Apply the brakes on some slushy icy snow and the abs goes into hyper meth mode. Ive almost ran red lights going about 15 mph. The abs just wont allow the truck to stop. Ive since done the abs disable mod and that has eliminated all my problems with stopping in slippery slushy/snowy conditions.
     
  7. Feb 18, 2017 at 8:36 AM
    #27
    Clyde Crashcup

    Clyde Crashcup [OP] Active Member

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    Jimmy, ABS is great. However, I mentioned "threshold braking." It is a braking method whereby the driver presses on the brake hard enough to slow the car down in the shortest amount of time, just shy of locking up the brakes. It's proven to be more successful at slowing down a car than ABS. You can read about threshold braking here:
    http://www.driftingstreet.com/braking-technique-threshold.html
     
  8. Feb 18, 2017 at 3:18 PM
    #28
    Jimmyh

    Jimmyh Well-Known Member

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    ABS is not supposed to shorten the braking distance it is only supposed to allow you to steer when emergency braking.
     
  9. Feb 18, 2017 at 3:24 PM
    #29
    Jimmyh

    Jimmyh Well-Known Member

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    Not to argue, but what you actually said was this:

    " I'm probably better at braking than ABS is. Most of you probably can do better that ABS can. "

    When actually it would be impossible for a human to outperform the ABS System at what it does.

    I will agree that threshold braking is a good skill if you are driving like a race car driver and actually know your brakes well enough to not lock them up and do not have ABS brakes or have it disabled.
     
  10. Feb 18, 2017 at 5:43 PM
    #30
    Clyde Crashcup

    Clyde Crashcup [OP] Active Member

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    I think it might be impossible to do a better job than ABS does when on black ice. But on dry pavement, it's possible to beat ABS at slowing down by using threshold braking. I've spent an afternoon with Skip Barber at Mazda Raceway doing just that. Over and over we practiced threshold braking. Most people don't practice braking, and most don't know what I'm even talking about. Highly qualified race car drivers were teaching us noobs all about it. I actually picked up some skills, so I wouldn't poo poo the idea that there are people out there who can brake better than an ABS system. I'll grant you, on ice is a different animal all together. I am the OP of this thread, and I'll just say my Tacoma's brakes act weird when tapping on them hard on the highway. I've skidded with them instead of the ABS system kicking in. But I was expecting the ABS. However, if I really had to stop because of an obstacle in the road, which hasn't happened yet, I would have lifted up slightly on the brake pedal then kept pressure on the brakes so they were chattering but without the wheels locking up. For everyone out there, the rule is that if you're going to collide with what's in front of you, then lift up on the brakes so that you have steering again, and turn around the obstacle, then straighten out and continue threshold braking. You can't steer while heavy on the brakes. So that's how you get out of that situation. And before that, always maintain situational awareness, meaning know what cars are around you on the sides and behind. If you do that, you'll know when you can turn into another lane to get around the car that's stopped in front of you. When I posted this thread, it was because of my interest in knowing if there is something wrong with my ABS. It morphed into some people telling me I don't know how to drive. I do know. I have now accidents. I race motorcycles. I see the danger. I'm alert as fuck. People should be glad I'm on the road with them.
     
  11. Feb 18, 2017 at 6:57 PM
    #31
    Hugh Morron

    Hugh Morron Manic Mechanic

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    Did you have the ABS system scanned to see if there were any fault codes stored in it?
     
  12. Feb 18, 2017 at 8:15 PM
    #32
    Jimmyh

    Jimmyh Well-Known Member

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    You are talking about two very different things and tying them together. It doesn't work that way.

    ABS as I said is not supposed to enable you to stop quicker. It is designed to allow you to not lock the wheels and this will allow you to steer around an obstruction rather than hit it. You cannot steer with a wheel that is not turning.

    I didn't imply that you don't know how to drive, don't be too sensitive. I'm only pointing out the difference between what you are saying and ABS.
     
  13. Feb 18, 2017 at 10:03 PM
    #33
    08TRDOFFROAD

    08TRDOFFROAD Well-Known Member

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    The few times I have had to engage in an emergency stop situation like you are describing , the tires chirp pretty good for the duration, but have never locked up, and I have never felt like I was in a skid. The feel of the pedal is pretty unmistakable when the ABS kicks in...
     
  14. Feb 21, 2017 at 9:58 AM
    #34
    tgear.shead

    tgear.shead Well-Known Member

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    The ABS senses whether or not there is a DIFFERENCE in the wheel speed. If you instantly lock up all 4 wheels, then there *IS* no speed difference -- they're ALL spinning at precisely ZERO RPM. This is more likely to happen on an icy surface than a dry surface.

    In a less extreme example of the same situation, it is also possible (but somewhat unlikely) to partially lock all 4 wheels to the same extent, causing again, a 4-wheel skid without the ABS engaging.

    In a more DANGEROUS extreme, imagine a situation where there is ice running under one side of the vehicle, but clean dry pavement on the other side. Now you jam on the brakes and the side on the ice wants to skid, it senses the wheel speed difference and engages ABS such that it keeps the side on ice turning the same speed as the side on pavement. Now you have essentially ZERO BRAKES, despite the fact that you have enough traction on the one side to slow yourself down fairly quickly.


    The moral of the story: Always assume that you HAVE NO BRAKES.
     
  15. Feb 21, 2017 at 10:05 AM
    #35
    tgear.shead

    tgear.shead Well-Known Member

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    Well... ABS and threshold braking actually approach the same situation from opposite ends.
    The objective of ABS is not actually to "pulse" the brakes, but rather the pulsing is a side effect of the mechanism used to selectively reduce braking force in order to maintain the strongest possible bond between the tire and the road.

    Threshold braking, sometimes inappropriately defined as "pumping the brakes", is a more human mechanism used to FEEL the bond between the tires and the road, allowing a human operator to maximize braking force without locking up the wheels.

    Threshold braking can work BETTER than ABS. The reason is because a human can actually FEEL when the brakes lock. The computer doesn't know the difference between a 4-wheel skid and being stopped.
     
  16. Feb 21, 2017 at 2:43 PM
    #36
    Jimmyh

    Jimmyh Well-Known Member

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    Everything has limits... Such as nothing will help on a sheet of black ice... except having enough sense to stay at home.
     
  17. Feb 21, 2017 at 5:19 PM
    #37
    Canufixit

    Canufixit Well-Known Member

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    I Do Appreciate all the posts and knowledge provided. But what about the original OP question. What should he/she do ??
     
  18. Feb 21, 2017 at 6:10 PM
    #38
    TashcomerTexas

    TashcomerTexas My truck is a whiner

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    But you always have brakes, unless you're a road douchebag and skip your inspections. If you were to assume you had no brakes you'd be a retard to even get on the road.
     
  19. Feb 22, 2017 at 7:26 AM
    #39
    tgear.shead

    tgear.shead Well-Known Member

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    Go back and read everything in this thread.
    Your brakes can be in PERFECT condition, yet still fail to stop you.
     

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