97, 2.4L Base Cab - Mushy Brakes on first Pump; firm on 2nd Pump

1997, 2.4L Base: I just put new brake pads on, but this problem was there before the new pads/shoes. First pump on brake pedal gives a lot of travel although it does brake well. The 2nd pump on the brake pedal reduces the travel significantly.

I put new pads and shoes on and bled the lines in the right order. During bleeding there were no air bubbles or spitting/sputtering. I drained a little over half the capacity of the reservoir during bleeding.

Why is it acting like that? Should I replace the master cylinder?

 

Try bleeding it again. Sounds like still some air trapped in the system. If that doesn't help, THEN think about a new Master Cylinder.

 

Thank you Skrain. Will do.

 

Is there a particular reason you bled them after you put on new pads? You shouldn't have to do that just for new pads.

But yeah, you probably have some air in the system. You might have sucked in some air from the master cylinder when bleeding. That can happen if you let the fluid level get too low in the reservoir.

 

He had the issue before the hardware swap, thus the reason for wanting to bleed, trying to ditch the mushy pedal issue...

 

When I learned about brakes (back in the olden days), what you are describing was an indication of air in the lines. Do a complete bleed to get rid of it and make sure to keep the MC topped off.

 

Bleed all four wheels. RR,LR,RF,LF. If there is no change. The new pads may not be "Bedded in" yet.
It's normal for them to feel mushy for the first 5 applications or so.

 

Thank you all for the replies. Your help is appreciated.

Haven't bled them yet. Maybe in the morning.

I only took the reservoir down half way, so I don't think I sucked air in last time.
I am going to push more fluid through this time. Will watch reservoir closely.

Are there any other possible causes for the mush? Only happens on first pedal push second push has much less travel; more like it should be.

 

Check rear adjustment.

 

Could it be a bad seal in the slave cylinder allowing fluid past it? Seems I did a repair a few years ago on a corolla like that. Toyota makes an OEM seal kit for the slaves, IIRC. that way you keep the higher quality slave. Easy to rebuild as well.

 

Like 10m said, carefully adjust the rear brakes.

 

Do a hard look around the master to is if you are leaking any fluid. Also look at all the wheel cylinders for fluid leaks. If you can't find any, then like they said above, check inside the rear hubs. It sounds like something is not right on the rear. Oh,,,,could be a bad hose, expanding on the first pump and then on the second pump you get pressure. Have someone push the pedal and you look at the hoses to see if they expand.

 

Many thanks to everyone for the help.

I thoroughly bled them and I still have mush. I will try adjusting the rear brakes next. Note: I found the l hydraulic load adjuster and bled it last as per Haynes.

Also, I read about pedal travel to point of solid resistance. 3.5" as per Haynes seems like a lot. Must admit though I do not completely understand. But I think new and correctly installed brakes should have little travel and be firm.

Please respond with any suggestions or advice.

Again, many thanks for your help.

 

10MGM you had it right the first time. I adjusted rear brakes today and the mush is gone. Pedal travel is normal and braking is improved. Looks like I should have adjusted them while changing pads. Derp!

Thanks to all who pitched in.

 

I have the same issue as you, how exactly did you adjust the rear brakes?

 

I took the drums off the rear brakes and adjusted to where the drums were moderately difficult to put on. While I was at it I cleaned the pads and hardware with brake cleaner.