School me on Bullets and Long Range Shooting

Hey all,

I recently purchased my first "long range" rifle. I got an APF Armory AR in .308 with a 20" 416R barrel with 1:10 twist. I have a metric fuck ton of firearms, but have never shot past 50 yards so I'm looking for a little info and insight.

Here's my new rifle.



This was my first group at 100 yards after sighting in with Russian surplus 145 grain ammo.



Not bad, but I know a much better group can be had. I shot some 168g Hornady Match and had pretty much the same group. That led me to believe I was the weak link. I moved over to the 300 yard range and was able to shoot a small metal silhouette without any issue.

I noticed when I was shooting I was staging the hell out of the trigger because it was so creepy and gritty. I changed out the trigger to a BCM PNT trigger (just a single stage "better than mil-spec") and I think that'll help me immensely. Cost was the main prohibiting factor of those 250 dollar triggers, plus I use a mil-spec trigger for work and didn't want to "learn" a new trigger, or have the lightness of that pull influence me at work.

All that leads me to this question. If I do my part, and assuming my barrel is good to go, what kind of ammo should I be using? I went to Field and Stream and my head was spinning looking at all the different grains, bullet types, and bullet tips. I don't hunt so all the bullets meant for dropping a deer don't mean anything to me, this gun will be strictly for target shooting. Alternatively, does bullet composition really matter, and the real issue is me and my ability to shoot?

TL;DR I got a new rifle and started shooting at range. Which bullets are best for target shooting with a .308?

Thanks!

 

Go to m4carbine.net and read,read and read. Don't post stupid shit,be an adult or you will be banned in a heartbeat. They have the best moderation I know of, I wish they would moderate this site.

 

Didn't have to be an asshole did we......?

But, to try to help you out. Since your not hunting, smaller grain will help out with distance. What I was taught in the army, you have a couple rules for distant shots....breath, trigger squeeze, and steady position mean everything.

 

And get the print out for your scope and memorize how to use the sights when shooting long range.

 

Hmmm. There is a lot here. I guess everyone has an opinion of what long range is and what's needed to get there. If you are only shooting to 300 yards, use whatever is accurate in your rifle. At that distance it really won't matter. If you plan to shoot 600+ yards, you need a high BC bullet. Lots of options in factory ammo in the 308. The 168s are a good place to start.

As far as the trigger, replace it with a good trigger as fast as you can. It is not going to mess you up with your duty rifle. You can not accurately shoot long range with a poor trigger, plus life is just too short to put up with less.

The biggest thing though for LR shooting, trigger time. You can't get enough.

 

Sounds like you are off to a good start. But you also sound like you arent quite sure what you are asking either. Are you just trying to hit the target or shoot the smallest groups you can? Or a combo of both? 100 yards isnt really long distance...300 isnt considered long distance to many either.

As for ammo....168gr and 175gr are really the "standard" in a 308. As for bullet type for non-hunting shooting the Match bullets are what youll want. Generally these are Hollow Point, Boat-tail bullets (HPBT). For off the shelf ammo Federal Gold Medal Match, Black Hills Match ammo, Prime Match, and im sure a few others are all pretty well reviewed. The Gold Medal Match has been a bit of a "standard" for quality, factory, match ammo for awhile.

I would highly recommend a different trigger. The single stage triggers with a nice 3.5lb break are a good option and wont break the bank.

I also wouldnt go out spending a ton of money either. Use what you have till you discover what you actually need. That russian surplus will do just fine for a little bit while you get the basics down. Once you start shooting the same size group everytime, well by then youll know what you really need And once you progress past the surplus ammo's accuracy you can move to something else. Going straight to FGMM at ~1 buck a round can really add up cost wise.

 

Thank you guys for the info. General consensus is triggers are pretty important. I'll try out this BCM trigger as I haven't shot the rifle since install. If it's not cutting it I'll swap it out, plenty of other rifles to put it in so no problem there.

I'll have to play with this scope too. It's got the hash marks but they are arbitrary (not mil-dot or anything) so I may switch it out at some point. Really wanted a nice FFP scope but again cost, not knowing if I'd enjoy this type of shooting. Now that I've done it I'm addicted.

Also, for clarification my short term goal is to get the smallest groups possible (I only have a 300 yard range available to me now unfortunately). I know that small groups at 300 will lead to better groups when I start pushing out to actual distances. So long term is to hang with the guys shooting at 1,000 and beyond, of course when I have that kind of land to play with, and ability haha.

Again really appreciate the help.

 

Try the jp enterprise yellow trigger springs to start. I think there like $15 through midway. Use some flitz polishing compound and a q tip on the mating surfaces of hammer and trigger. Small amounts at a time is the important thing to remember. It's cheaper than a new trigger
Quality ammo and trigger will go a long way.
Hope this helps

 

Reloading will also help, even with a semi auto. Save your brass and reload. You don't need to spend a fortune on reloading equipment. Start with a single stage press, crank out some high quality ammo. Try different bullets, powder charges, etc u till you find what you do best with.

Like others have said, it's not how much money you put into it, it's how you use what you have.

 

The round is not going to correct your grouping at 300. Looking at your target you want some trigger time. Really the best thing you can do is put rounds through it and work on your form and trigger control. There is a massive difference in 300 to 1000. You will get there, take your time and remember not many can actually hit at 1k despite what they claim. Enjoy your rifle and move to a bolt gun when you want to be consistent at 1k.

 

So what is your goal for 1k ? Is it to just hit target consistently or are you looking for sub moa groups? Heavier bullet with low bc are your friend for that range. 0-600 is pretty doable, beyond 600 is a whole new world. If you're looking for sub moa, then a good bolt gun will be what you want..

 

To get the best accuracy, get into reloading your own ammo. After you get through the initial setup cost for the equipment, powder primers, bullets etc, you will be shooting all of your guns for much less with better results.

Until then each gun/barrel is slightly different. You may see slightly better accuracy from one type of ammo to another. So once you dial in your fundamentals, then it's going to be a search for which round works best for your specific gun. Match ammo is the best place to start, but try all of the different ones. Google luck in the search. That's always the fun part.

 

Put 500+ rounds down range and get used to your gun. At the point you should be able to start tightening up your group. practice makes perfect. I shoot about a 1000 round a year through my rifle just to keep myself trained, its muscle memory. I also recommend for first time shooters to start out with a small caliber rifle for training and get used to that before buying a large caliber.

 

All of this is accurate info. I have a KIDD 10/22 for benchrest shooting. Two stage trigger at 8oz and 8oz for a combined 1 lb pull. It is by far the best trigger I have ever shot, on any rifle, ever. (Not saying a lot exactly, because I don't know what a trigger feels like on a worked over CF rifle like a .308 .338 or 50 BMG going for 600 -1000 yard shots) At 100 yards I'm going for tiny groups. For CF up to 600 you'll do well just to hit plates. Different worlds. Find out what you want to do and read up on that. I shoot .22 because I can practice really cheap, and its hard poking tiny holes in tight groups. I can see the scope move with my heart beat. I need a bench rest because I can't hold a rifle still enough yet. Bender is definitely on to something. I have $1500 into a 10/22, and I can't use it even close to it's potential. If I start shooting CF I'll be wasting far more money. I can practice with .22 for $40 in ammo for hours.

High quality triggers are your friend.

 

There is so much false information in this thread.

OP are those 1" squares on your target? If so I could sleep at night with that. 1.5 MOA from an AR Platform is pretty common. With a 1 in 10" twist rate I would stick with the 175gr class bullets. Then again the barrel will tell you what it likes. I've had a factory 308 1in10 that favored 150gr bullets.

Next I would recommend spending some time over on Snipershide and Accurate Shooter. Tons of valuable information on those two forums.

Welcome to the club. You will never have a dime to your name again. Goodluck.


Here's my baby. 6.5x47L built by Wade Stuteville. Target 1.127" at 530 Yards

 

For 308 (in a bolt rifle), I use Berger Bullets 30cal 175gr OTM Tactical. That bullet pretty much has the highest BC of the traditional BTHP / OTM designs out there that I can shoot in a 1:12" twist barrel (ref. https://www.ocabj.net/knowledge-base/308-winchester-data/ ; all collected using Labradar).

For a gas gun, I would stick with 175gr BTHP/OTM e.g. 175gr Sierra Match King or the aforementioned Berger. I am guessing you are running magazine length in which case a traditional BTHP design will be jump tolerant to the lands. While I have had good luck with substantial jump with VLDs, many guns are very finnicky with seating depth on VLDs. Since you have a fast twist, you can try the Berger 175gr Long Range BT Target or the Berger 185gr Hybrid Target. I don't know about 185gr in a gas gun, though. Depending on the powder used, you could have cycling issues when you get into heavier bullets while trying to maintain a certain muzzle velocity.

 

have you used the berger bullets on game?

 

Negative. I don't hunt.

 

I've used the OTM, VLD, and Hybrids on game. The only one that actually expanded was the hybrid. The vld and OTM both penciled through coyotes and hogs.

 

Berger has an actual Hunting line of bullets.