WS transmission fluid is garbage . Get it out of your transmission now

New member here... I'm a member on other automotive forums, no, I don't have a Tacoma, but I do have a 2015 Scion xB with the dinosaur 4 speed AT and, of course, it takes Toyota WS fluid like just about everything else Toyota makes. I've owned so many used and new vehicles of many makes and I do all of my own maintenance. This xB, my wife and I leased new, we wanted to buy it but wanted the "no money down" and low monthly payment so we leased it and we'll probably end up keeping it, they aren't made for the U.S. market anymore (I'm guessing the Corolla Rumion and Ruckus are still sold in Japan and Australia, respectively) and the Toyotas on this particular platform are bulletproof (Yaris, Scion xA, xD, tC, except FRS which is really a Subaru).

So, at about 20k-25k, I start to get the all-too-familiar "bump" in the downshift at a red light or stop sign. Get's progressively worse over time. I've had many cars, new and used, with this issue, and many times it's just the way the product is engineered, doesn't mean there's something wrong, I even know some people that have Wranglers and other Chrysler products with ATs and have this problem. But it bothers me, especially at high temps, it gets worse and annoying in city driving.

So, I went for the bottle of Lucas tranny slip-stop at my local Walmart, basically a thickener, I've used it with good results in older cars with transmissions that had lots of wear, decided just to mix a little bit with the WS to see what would happen. I emptied out about half a quart of the WS ATF from the tranny, and just topped it off with the Lucas, and added it little bit at a time, I know this stuff expands under normal operation, so I got it to the HOT mark on the stick. Seemed to work much better, at least for 2 weeks, then it started to happen again, and at this point I figured, I'm not going to add anymore, this is a new transmission and I probably shouldn't have added any to begin with, I should have just looked for a replacement fluid.

Hence why I'm here. Now, in a vain attempt to get the viscosity and other parameters of the fluid to where it was before I added the additive, I went and bought 6 bottles of WS off of eBay from a Toyota dealer, paid about $9-$10 per bottle including shipping. Don't know if that's good or bad since I never priced a quart at my local dealer to begin with. I only get out 2 and half quarts of ATF out at a time, using ramps and draining the pan. So I drained and filled 2 times. Everytime I drain and fill, the tranny works better and better, the bump is just about gone.

My take away: Without getting too much into numbers and details, I have seen all manner of ATF fluid in my life, not to mention brake fluids, steering fluids, hydraulic fluids, gear oils, etc. I've worked on diesel trucks as well. In fact, I've been exposed to so many petrochemicals I'm surprised I don't have cancer. Looking at the Toyota WS fluid new from the bottle, can't help but opine that it looks like it's something that would be poured into a Hot Wheels Power Wheels car for a kid if it had an AT in it. Bottle says it's formulated or made by ExxonMobil. I thought it was more like Fisher-Price. Looks like I'm pouring in cherry Kool-Aide into the fill hole. This stuff just looks so cheap, I would expect it to be labeled Supertech.

I can honestly see how this fluid will need to be replaced at every 25k, it's properties don't hold up, at least in my case. A Scion xB isn't even really a truck, a wagon maybe, but not a heavy-duty vehicle, I don't see how the trans fluid shouldn't last a lot more. I don't tow with it, do 50/50 city/highway driving, yes, it's a lot of miles, but still.

To give you some perspective, I have a 2003 Honda Odyssey, the one with the F'ed up 5 speed AT that Honda got sued over because they all began to fail due to the 3rd gear clutch getting too hot issue, and there was a workaround that the dealers were supposed to try before replacing the tranny. Well mine has 152k and has the original tranny, most of these minivans would have gone through at least a replacement by now. Shifts pretty good for it's age. Bought it used with 129k on the ODO, first thing I did was change the canister AT filter behind the battery and did a drain and fill (3 times, 3 quarts) using Honda's OEM fluid. No problems, I keep my cars in good shape.

So, I would love to swap out the Toyota WS for something a little more heavy duty?? I mean, here in Jersey our winters can go down to 0F and our summers sizzle at up to 100F+. I don't think this fluid can make the cut, it's like water with red dye. My local mechanic who I've known for ages and he specializes in German stuff, he suggested Redline D4 or D6, he says they make a decent oil product.

FYI, I'm not a chemist or physicist, I did study electronic engineering and automotive technology in my younger days, these days I study the art of, how to make the 8 year old play nicely with his 4 year old brother while I sit and type this message, for example.

 

I just changed out the transmission fluid after reading this thread. Went with Valvoline MaxLife, followed mountain lion's guide. Took about 13-14 quarts, I don't remember exactly. Truck has about 33k miles, maybe it's just my imagination but it does seem to shift a little bit smoother. I was able to get into temp check mode but I ended up buying an UltraGauge MX so I can read transmission temp a lot easier. You still need to manually change some info in the sub-menus of the UltraGauge to get it to show transmission pan temp, but it works great.

 

Thanks for the advice. I only read through the first like 5 pages of this thread and took me almost an hour? That's crazy, I don't have a lot of time. I intend to read it all but looks like the jury is out and Valvoline MaxLife seems to be the go to WS replacement. I'm still uncertain, I might wait for powertrain warranty to run out before doing a full fluid swap like that.

 

I too was worried about the warranty but after much reading and finding that Valvoline guarantees to not void the warranty; I figure if they are willing to put their name on it then why not because if things do go wrong and the dealer denies the claim I'm going after Valvoline. I was at first going to go with AMSOIL ATF fluid but at 13-14 bucks a quart that really adds up and I wasn't in a situation to spend that much money; if so I would've just stuck with the Toyota WS which is a bit cheaper but not as cheap as the Valvoline.

So far no regrets; Truck is running just as it did with the WS and definitely a lot smoother with the new fluid. It only took me 12quarts; after about 8 quarts everything that was coming out was super bright red so in a way I felt like I wasted the last 4 quarts. There was quite a bit of small metal shavings/particles that did come out with the old fluid so at least getting rid of them made me feel better, its like getting rid of the break in fluids.

If you want to save some money and your located in the lower 48 and still want to use the WS fluid; you can get some AISIN Type WS fluid(Who makes our transmissions) which is much cheaper than the branded Toyota WS fluid; or if you can find some MOBIL 3324(Which is basically WS)_ Toyota slaps on their name and charges you extra for the same stuff.

 

Many thanks for the info, much appreciated. I'm leaning to do a full fluid swap, I just need to figure out which hose that goes out to the radiator is the outflow and which is the inflow, maybe it's marked on the transaxle body. If not, I'll have to disconnect one and start the car for a second or two to see if it spits out. Unless anyone else out there knows a trick, like for example, would the system pump the fluid UP against gravity or DOWN with it when it gets to the radiator, I see one line connects to the top of the radiator, the other to the bottom, I would venture a guess that it pumps downward.

 

If you have the cooler, the fluid flows out the top of the cooler, I like to hook in there. It's easy to take the grill out and hook onto the cooler outlet.

 

This is exactly what I did; except mines a 2015 so the ATF Cooler looks a bit different; it has both hoses attached to the bottom; the far left one that is mounted towards the middle of the cooler is the one you want to hook into to drain the old stuff out just like so

I attached my homemade pump to the return line that went back to the transmission and pumped fluid into that; let the transmission pump out 3 quarts then pump back in 3 new quarts; rinse/repeat until satisfied. I uploaded my setup on another thread but I'll put it here too.




^^ Wal-mart Garden Pump made for spraying your plants with water and what not; cost under 6 bucks and works like the professional pumps. Cheap and works excellent.

 

Http://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...a-ws-atf-automaitc-transmission-fluid.373083/

 

After reading all 16 pages of this thread and other threads I could find on this topic, I decided to go buy a case and a half of the Toyota WS ATF and made an appointment to have a local trusted shop do the "exchange" for me. After all that, I felt as though it's better to be safe than sorry. For a few extra bucks...I'll have peace of mind. $7.78 a quart

 

Are you sure you read this thread?? lol
"WS transmission fluid is garbage . Get it out of your transmission now"

 

lol, yeah...I read it

 

I really want to try the Amsoil but that would be $140 vs $60 for Valvoline.

 

Ok, so I had my transmission serviced this morning and I gave the shop 16 Qts of the Toyota WS ATF to use. I have to say that it shifts way smoother now after the exchange.

 

I'm not sure why you are posting this?

 

For closure?

 

Hmmm I've worked in a Toyota Dealership's Service Dept for several years and have seen several vehicles from 2005+ that have over 250k and 300k miles on them and never once touched the transmission fluid. Only problems we have ever seen is from people that, a. drain the transmission fluid and can't put it back in, b. drain it on accident, or c. treated their vehicle poorly.

Not disputing the fact that it may or may not be a good product, just stating my first hand experience over the years, because everyone always has their opinions and their preferences.

 

Hmm Dealership spy

Lol kidding, you're not defending the product enough. welcome.

 

Guys new member here, my truck only has 30k on it but I typically like to run Amsoil gear fluids. Only exception is toyota's special v160 fluid for my supras trans.

I want to swap my ATF out. My truck is a '15 prerunner without the tow package (might be redundant). Will mine use this 14qts like you guys are talking about? Or is that just because of yall 4x4's transfer cases?

I already have some severe gear coming for the rear end.

Thanks

 

The ATF in your truck is not a simply drain and refill. Requires the use of a techstream but there are other ways around it. There are some threads on it. Do a search and it will come up.