Icon 2.5 C/Os + King 14x700 Springs

So the up and down travel ratio is only impacted by the spring rate and ride height? The collar position can be anywhere along the length of threads on the body.

I guess I'm still not quite gasping how a 14" changes anything if I stay with a 600 lb/in rate. I'll be able to move the collar up to have the same ride height but I will lose lift with the increase in weight.

 

@DaveInDenver. Bottom line: if you can't find someone else in Northern Colorado with 700 lb spring coil-overs with an aftermarket plate steel bumper and winch, you're welcome to drive mine, if you want to make the trip down to Colorado Springs (roads aren't great today . . . some ice). But invitation is open. To help you decide what's best for your situation, best thing is to drive other dudes' Tacomas to see how they handle differently with different set-ups. But my questions to you would be: 1. Do you have the ARB and winch on there now? 2. Are you happy with the current softness/firmness of your ride?

 

The total travel doesn't change . . . period. OK, maybe you can get a little more total travel with an after-market UCA, which gives a little more up-travel than factory ball-joint UCA. But not a big amount. The total travel is divided into up-travel and down-travel. If total travel = 10", then you can determine if you want 5" up-travel and 5" down-travel or 6" up-travel and 4" down-travel, or whatever you want. You change the set-up by adjusting the collar position. But the total amount of travel must = 10" in my hypothetical. The less down-travel you set, the higher the ride height will be.

 

That's very generous, I may take you up on it. I'm basing my thoughts on experience with OME and friends to some extent. I know 886 coils are 660# and the ride with an ARB + winch was fine and the height was about right. I have a nagging feeling that 700# is too much.

Answers are that, yes, my current set up is working great (in front at least, my rear Dakar/FOX 2.0 I think may be slightly underdamped, but that's a different question). I'm running the stock tune, 13" long, 600 lb/in rate Eibach/FOX springs with a stock front end. Only mod is two Odysseys PC1400 in place of the original group 27 Toyota. So that's about 30 lbs heavier at the tray. I got around 1.75" of lift and ride is good.

The ARB bumper will be going on next week or so, that is definite. The winch is sitting on the shelf in need of some paint and a regrease, so could be January or July, more likely the July based on my timeliness. I would swap coils potentially before the holidays if the weight of the bumper sags the front significantly. It may not be too bad and I can just spin the collars down in the short term.

My reasons for doing this are a couple of long road trips coming up and I feel exposed to the wayward dingo in northern NM at night. I had a bull bar on my last truck and I guess you grow accustomed to certain things.

I want to end up with 2-to-2.25" of lift but I also don't want to end up with a buckboard, I've come to really like coil IFS (the old truck being 25mm torsion IFS).

 

Yes, exactly. I know the travel window does not change (I do, FYI, have Camburg balljoint UCA) no matter what you do. The ratio of up/down is what I'm trying to grasp and how collar position relates to this (if at all). I understand that the position of the collar sets ride height and where the static position within the window falls.

I know a ride height increase consumes down travel and that this happens regardless of spring length and collar position. But if I have a 13"/600 and put on a 14"/600 all of this remains constant and only the position of the collar changes (presumably 1" higher, all things being otherwise equal).

So nothing else in the suspension changes, the top of the coil bucket, the control arms, the position of the piston in the damper body. Just the position of the collar. So the same amount of up and down is the same?

 

Adjustable coil-overs are certainly superior to older-style torsion bar IFS designs. From the information you've provided, I'd recommend going to a 650 lb/in coil spring. I say this because you say you're happy with the current ride quality with stock bumper and 600 lb/in springs. With the additional weight of the ARB, your ride will seem softer with the same 600 lb/in springs, even after you adjust the collars to bring ride height back to current, or even 1/2" higher. Whether you chose 14" long or 13" long spring really only determines how much thread you'll use, which effects how much adjustability you have to change ride height.

 

EXACTLY !! It only matters that you're adding weight with the bumper and future winch, and maybe future heavier skid plates. But my experience is that you'll be happy with a 14" 650 lb/in springs, even with all of that additional weight (ARB, winch and future plate steel skids).

 

My conclusion is pretty much the same. Thank you for walking through it.

What confused me was what seemed like a reference that a longer spring length may have impacted the up/down ratio within the window but that didn't make sense to me. I'm 99.934% sure 650 is what I want but I see threads like this and wonder. I may have to do all of this a second time if/when skid plates enter the picture. I'm just trying to avoid being under sprung now (understanding that I may be slightly too firm until I get the winch in).

Did forget to mention I do have bolted-on sliders, Mobtown. Also it helps that I have synthetic rope. Pretty sure the next step would be skids and I might choose to do aluminum from RCI anyway, in which case 650 may still be viable.

 

DaveInDenver, I'm pretty sure Adventurous (also in Denver) has the setup you are looking at. But he hasn't written much about how it worked out. I'm pretty sure he'd help you out if you pm'ed him. https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...dclb-build-thread.447193/page-7#post-13799541. That's his build thread. Search on king or kings.

 

Tryin to follow everyone's comments, but I just got some king 2.5 extended travel coilovers with resis for my 2011 Tacoma and I do have a front prerunner bumper which is kinda heavy. Should I get bigger coils? What do the king 2.5 extended travel resis come with? Would these work for me?

 

I don't know what your Kings come with but can say that 650 lb springs ride pretty nice on my truck. Firm enough not to need the sway bar but still a comfortable ride. I'm very happy with them.

 

Holy Hell! That is way more preload that ICON allows. Check the manual, only 2.13" max.

 

So after reading through this thread i feel like the 14''x700lb springs would be good for what i will be running.....sliders,aluminium plate bumper with winch and full skids....about 360lbs total. Do you guys agree?

 

I've never had 700# springs but based on my experience so I'm sticking with 650#. I run an ARB bumper, XD9000 winch, dual batteries in stock location and I haven't exceeded my springs yet. They still ride pretty firm and I don't use up all of my travel 'wheeling.

The last remaining major addition are skids, which would be about 40 lbs for the front and another 25 lbs for the transmission. But that's not all totally new weight since I'll be removing some with the stock splash plates, not a lot but something anyway.

 

I'm about to do full skids,sliders,plate bumper and winch,just want to make sure i pick the correct suspension setup for the added weight.

 

I've been reading up on all of this and for those who are "crank" hungry with the coils, please read what ICON says abut all of that:

2. YOUR ICON COILOVER ASSEMBLIES COME SHIPPED AT ICON’S RECOMMENDED RIDE HEIGHT. DO NOT PRELOAD THE COIL BEYOND 2.13” (1.13” FOR 700LB COIL #158508) OF EXPOSED THREADS BETWEEN THE BOTTOM OF THE TOP CAP AND THE TOP OF THE COIL ADJUSTER NUT. A REDUCTION IN RIDE QUALITY WILL BE EXPERIENCED IF COILOVERS ARE ADJUSTED TO ALLOW FOR LESS THAN 2” OF DROOP TRAVEL FROM STATIC RIDE HEIGHT.

Yeah, I have mine on 650# springs, but I am abut to install a bumper, full skids and sliders. 700# springs it is.

 

Yeah i have been wondering about this. I am basically at 2” over stock with that measurement

 

That's the important detail. Icon's statement is also saying that you shouldn't crank up coil overs to 3" of lift.

It's not quite the same but with my 650# coils I'm at about 1.75" between the top cap and the coil seat on my FOX shocks to get about 2" of lift roughly (about 23" from hub center to fender lip).

I did add a couple more turns after adding a Pelfrey front skid and probably to compensate for settling. I'm still very happy and have no desire to go any higher rate.

 

Hate to resurrect an old thread, but I have some updated information. I've been living with my 14" long, 700 lb/in King coil springs in the front for several years. The suspension in the front always seemed a bit stiff, even with my steel bumper, winch, and steel skid plates. But I was never sure if it was my coil spring rate or my ride height, which limits down travel to some degree. In other words, ride height, down travel, and preload adjustment are all the same thing with these adjustable coilovers. More preload = higher ride height / lift = less down travel.

In other words, if we increase the preload adjustment to increase ride height, we decrease down travel by the same amount. If we have a sufficiently low amount of down travel, the ride will feel too firm / sucky / horrible, regardless of spring rate. However, if the spring rate is too high, the ride will also feel too firm / sucky / horrible, regardless of ride height / preload / amount of down travel. So, how do we figure out which it is? How do we pick the ideal spring rate for a given ride height?

I stumbled upon this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udgrGGKQcoM

This video states that the optimal coil spring should be compressed 25% - 30% of its free length at ride height. 25% is on the firm side, and 30% is on the softer side. Anything less than 25% will likely be too firm of a spring, and anything more than 30% may be too soft of a spring.

So, I measured how compressed my coilsprings were @ ride height. Driver's side measured: 10.4" compressed, and Pass side: 10.75" compressed (both are 14" long uncompressed). So the driver's side is compressed 25.7% of its free length, and the passenger side is compressed 23% of its free length. Both on the firm side.

So, how would 600 lb/in springs look like? Doing the math: Driver's side: 700 lb/in * 3.6" compression = 2520 lb force. Pass side: 700 lb/in * 3.25" = 2275 lb force. Switching to 600 lb/in springs would = Driver's side: 2520 lb / 600 lb/in = 4.2" compression @ same ride height. Pass side: 2275 lb / 600 lb/in = 3.79 in compression. For a 14" spring, this translates to Driver's side: 30% compression; Pass side: 27% compression.

So, I left the world of theory, and entered the world of reality, and bought some 14" long, 600 lb/in coil springs. During installation, I adjusted the collar on the coilovers to give me the same ride height (0.6" more on driver's side, 0.54" more on pass side).


Result: Ride is softer @ same ride height. And, for me, this softer ride is preferable. So, if you want to know the ideal spring rate for you, pick the ride height you want by adjusting your collar, with all the stuff installed you want (bumper, winch, plates, etc). Then, measure your compressed spring lengths. Remember, the ICON spring is 13" long (free length), 650 lb/in, unless you ordered differently. Then, calculate your percent compression. < 25% may be too firm; > 30% may be too soft.

 

I wrote this somewhere else, not sure it was here or not. Perhaps a data point since I run 650#/14" Kings. BTW, very happy with the ride, not stiff but doesn't wallow either.

I have an ARB bull bar (say +90 lbs over stock), XD9000 winch with synthetic line (call it 65 lbs), two PC1400 batteries in place of the original group 27 (say +35 lbs over stock) and bolt-on Mobtown sliders (I dunno, 100 lbs for the pair?).

So call it about 240 lbs over stock on the front axle, 190 lbs hung in front of it and 50 lbs behind (assuming the sliders are about centered between axles). With this I feel the 650# is about right. My springs are compressed to approximately 10.5" (3.5" compression) on the driver's and 10.875" (3.125" compression) on passenger. That represents 2,275 lbs on driver and 2,031 lbs on passenger. Which is about right when you figure the fuel tank and batteries are on that side. Just based on impromptu weighing this jives with a force ratio of about 0.6 since my front axle weight sits at ~2,600 lbs.

A 700 lb/in spring would change these static numbers by 0.25", but the difference is that it will travel dynamically that same ~7% less on a pound-for-pound basis. At block height of 6.61" my King spring will hold 4,804 lbs and the old 13"/600# Eibach/FOX would hold 4,350 lbs fully compressed. A 700 lb/in, 14" long coil should hold about 5,200 lbs at full compression.​