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Swapping a 5vz-fe 3.4L

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by fholl29, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Oct 5, 2017 at 10:38 PM
    #1
    fholl29

    fholl29 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hey TW,

    So repairs came up for a bad cylinder (roughly $2500 in a shop) in my 1997 T-100. The truck also sat for 5 years. many on a different thread suggested I may as well swap the engine.

    So, I may do it myself for the first time ever. My three questions are, is it possible to swap a newer year 5vz-fe 3.4L for my 97 one and should I?

    Second question, what all kind of tools am I going to need in order to do the complete swap aside from the engine hoist?

    Third, how difficult is it to line up the AUTOMATIC transmission with the new engine?

    Thank you all for your help!
     
  2. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:10 PM
    #2
    Bishop84

    Bishop84 Well-Known Member

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    You want the lowest mileage possible, get a good 3.4 and don't worry about the rest.

    Biggest things are things like traction control, later models have it and the wiring harness won't match. Same with a 5VZ from a manual model, different harness.

    I would suggest buying a block and discarding any harness or intake.

    Mating an A/T is a lot easier than mating the M/T. Biggest concerns are that the torque converter is engaged all the way into the trans, and that the dowels line up. Very easy as far as transmissions go.

    The swap is easy, especially in your full sized t100, I would worry most about potential rust on the exhaust, which can be dealt with once the engine is out. Aside from that, very standard fare, no big concerns.
     
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  3. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:19 PM
    #3
    Key-Rei

    Key-Rei Well-Known Member

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    As above mentioned thw swap is very easy going from 3.4 to 3.4 3.4 to 4.7 is much more involved.

    Basic hand tools and an engine hoist will be needed, a floor jack for the auto trans preferably one with a transmission table attachment.

    Is yours 4x4 or 2wd? The transfer case is ONE HEAVY MOTHER. So be aware of that and your point of balance will be more towards the transfercase.

    I would use a 3.4 from a 2000 or older as the newer ones had throttle by wire TB's and different harnesses but all that could be moved over from your original engine assuming they are in good working order.

    Lastly since you are going to have bith engines out at some point I highly HIGHLY recomend the fallowing maintenance:

    Timing belt
    Timing belt tensioner
    Idler bearings if above 100k miles on the donor.
    Water pump
    Cam seals
    Rear main seal
    Valve cover gaskets and seals
    Half moon seals
    If 4x4 the oil pan seal

    Make sure your T-stat is installed with the jiggler at the 6 o'clock position. Counter intuitive as bubbles rise but the FSM states as such and it is well documented the 3.4 runs cooler this way.
     
    fholl29[OP] likes this.
  4. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:23 PM
    #4
    fholl29

    fholl29 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your response Bishop84, I hadn't thought too much about the wiring harness so I'm glad you mentioned it. I've been looking in the 2nd gen range for engines on engine world and they've got some. So, it's my first swap, definitely a giant leap for me as the most I've ever done is change the brakes, radiator, plugs, basic stuff. am I crazy to think I can swap it or is this really an average Joe type job like so many people are leading me to believe?

    thanks
     
  5. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:27 PM
    #5
    Key-Rei

    Key-Rei Well-Known Member

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    If you can change a radiator and plugs you can swap the 3.4 it is more involved so take your time and lots of pictures, count on it taking a good morning to a day to pull it and a day or two to put it back in if it's your first time. Go slow, mark your bolts or put them in baggies to keep everything straight.
     
    fholl29[QUOTED][OP] likes this.
  6. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:33 PM
    #6
    Key-Rei

    Key-Rei Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of changing the radiator...

    It's a good idea to pull the radiator to give you more room to work and maneuver the block. Your coolant system with obviously be empty anyway so might as well. This way you don't run the risk of puncturing the core of the radiator or cracking the tank ends.
     
  7. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:34 PM
    #7
    Speedytech7

    Speedytech7 Toyota Cult Ombudsman

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    I've done a mod or two
  8. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:39 PM
    #8
    fholl29

    fholl29 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    awesome info, thank you. It is a 4x4, so I'll have to remove the transfer case? Also, planning to order a rebuilt engine with almost everything being new in it from engineworld.com. So I would hope I wouldn't have to worry about too much aside from belts? However, I plan do do some work on the old one in hope of reselling so this is all really good information.

    thank you
     
  9. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:41 PM
    #9
    Key-Rei

    Key-Rei Well-Known Member

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    Only if you have to remove the transmission, which I believe you don't have to do to pull the engine but you might.

    I think you can get away with just unbolting the engine from the trans.
     
    fholl29[QUOTED][OP] likes this.
  10. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:45 PM
    #10
    fholl29

    fholl29 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Right on, I needed the reassurance. now I just need to find a loaner hoist from someone local.

    thank you
     
  11. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:46 PM
    #11
    Dalandser

    Dalandser ¡Me Gustan Las Tacos-mas!

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    I was about to dump a lot of info. Let's make this certain: DO NOT BUY AN ENGINE FROM ENGINEWORLD OR ANY OTHER ONLINE "REBUILDER"
     
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  12. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:49 PM
    #12
    fholl29

    fholl29 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a place to purchase a good step by step and diagram manual for the engine?
     
  13. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:49 PM
    #13
    Dalandser

    Dalandser ¡Me Gustan Las Tacos-mas!

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    Be patient I'm getting there. :)
     
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  14. Oct 5, 2017 at 11:51 PM
    #14
    fholl29

    fholl29 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    oh shit, why not? they offer a 6 month warranty which would obviously suck to have to use if I go through all of the trouble of throwing the damn thing in there. Still, good to know I have it upon purchasing it.
     
  15. Oct 6, 2017 at 12:18 AM
    #15
    Dalandser

    Dalandser ¡Me Gustan Las Tacos-mas!

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    Now that we have that squared away, start looking for a low mileage salvaged engine, preferably one that is still running when you go see it get taken out of the vehicle it was in. JDM if you don't have any other choices. Rebuilders that aren't local to you (and ones that are for most instances) give you a warranty that is about as useful as a three legged ballerina. Whose going to spend the amount of time yanking out their engine and pay the return shipping (both ways probably) to the company while their truck is parked and they're thumbing for a ride (or best case scenario down a vehicle)? Yep, pretty much no one. That coupled with the fact that they often don't do half of the stuff they say they do or that they use the cheapest parts they can find that will make it to the end of their warranty so after 6 months their gaskets blow and you're not going to be knocking down their e-door.

    On the flip side you could go with a more expensive and legit place based on reputation like yotamasters, but nearly $4g's is a ton of money for a new motor. Let's put it this way - for $1400 I got an engine and 4x4 trans in great condition out of a running truck with 160k miles on it. I also got to see the truck and how well it was maintained (interior was spotless) telling me something about the person that had owned the vehicle.

    You've been warned, proceed with caution.

    I'm half way done with my swap. I have everything out and now I'm waiting for some free time off of work to put in the donor motor (worked 13+ hour days all week)

    That said, here's some great resources: http://www.skjos.net/toyota/timing/timing.html













    Other than that for tools right off the bat:

    Load leveler for engine hoist - makes it a lot safer and easier to remove trans from engine etc.

    Breaker bar 2' or longer or 3/8" or 1/2" impact for getting the bell housing bolts out plus a 3' extension (I got away with a bunch stuck together, but for putting the engine back in I bought this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WKT9ITS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

    1/4" drive sockets and 1/2" or 3/8" drive sockets

    in-lb torque wrench from 10-200 in-lb
    ft-lb torque wrench from 10-150 or so ft-lb
    ft-lb torque wrench that goes up to 250+ ft lb for crank bolt assuming you'll be putting a new timing belt on your engine which if you are buy this:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Piece-3-...MP-Genuine-OE-Manufacture-Parts-/180729034728

    A tool for holding the crank pulley in place when re-torquing the crank bolt

    A transmission jack: I used this one. I'm going to build a jig out of plywood, shims, a ratchet strap, and carpet to hold the trans in place when putting it back in - the transfer case likes to rotate it when you don't want it to rotate. You can remove the transfer case. My solution so far seems to be the jig. We'll see when the time comes though.

    Some good penetrating fluid for exhaust stuff - I use this:

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/penetrating-oil-showdown.350800/

    in a cheapo oiling can - works great. Even though I'm in the southwest, exhaust stuff can still get corroded and this stuff made it so I could even get the flange nut off that the guy yanking the engine mostly rounded off with his impact.

    Gaskets for intake and exhaust and random bolts. I bought all my stuff from @gunny1005 who's super helpful and gives the best price for oem parts aside from the timing belt kit I linked with a TW discount and free shipping from Camelback Toyota.

    The worst parts are:

    1. Separating the engine from the trans. Go slow and don't try to over muscle it - it'll come out by adjusting the trans and engine angles to each other, some shimmying, some shaking, and some light and thoughtful prying with a long prybar (if it feels like too much, it is too much imo).

    2. Getting the trans out over the steering rack and past the exhaust. Keeping the transmission in it's original orientation will be the best way to do this - mine rotated from the transfer case and couldn't get past that stuff without me rotating it back to it's original orientation - even then she was a tight fit ;)

    3. Getting the electrical connections. Man this was a PITA to get all of the different kinds of clips off without breaking any. The most tedious part of the job.

    That's about it. Any more questions and I'll be glad to answer them. Think this over. If all you need is a new head I'd look into doing that - I think your bottom end has low miles. I'd probably just get the head repaired or replaced and machine the block deck if necessary. If you do all the work then that $2700 will be more like $500. You can pull off the oil pan which might require the engine or diff coming out to see if the cylinder walls have any wear marks or corrosion, plus if you're pulling the head you'll see one bank of cylinders from the top. Just because it was sitting doesn't mean it's not good - if it didn't have a hood and water was getting into the spark plug tubes you'd see corrosion in there. Other than that water probably wouldn't be getting into the engine. If you swap, any 5vz will work, but you'll have to transfer over your intake / throttle body (at least throttle body) and oilpan / oil pickup assembly unless its from a T100 4x4.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  16. Oct 6, 2017 at 1:39 AM
    #16
    Key-Rei

    Key-Rei Well-Known Member

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    Well shit son! You're alright!

    Wish this was around when I pulled my 3.4's done a few now but the first was sketch.
     
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  17. Oct 6, 2017 at 9:06 AM
    #17
    fholl29

    fholl29 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    WELL DAMN! I can't thank you enough for all the help man. Looks like I've got some tools to buy regardless of which I decide to do. At this point $500 is sounding a hell of alot easier, cheaper, and doable considering I don't have a hoist or stands for a tranny. This is my daily driver so I'm looking at the best and fastest options while having the patience to get the job done right. I've got a reliable mechanic looking at it on Tuesday so I'll get his opinion as well. I'm sure I'll be back with more question for you man! THANK YOU
     
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  18. Oct 6, 2017 at 10:32 AM
    #18
    fholl29

    fholl29 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    @Dalandser , I just spoke with the toyota dealership who's been looking at my car. They did compression and said I would need a new short block. Mechanic said if it were his truck, he would get a short block, have it fully machined then transfer what ift needed from the old, but with new gaskets/seals. wondering your opinion on this?
     
  19. Oct 6, 2017 at 10:49 AM
    #19
    cory02taco

    cory02taco Well-Known Member

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    A running salvage engine sourced from somewhere like car-part.com is the way I'd go, I've sourced a couple from there with good results. A long 1/2" breaker bar with 14 and 17 mm swivel sockets (not a swivel adapter) are a must for unbolting the bell housing from the engine, I can't imagine how much of a pain in the ass taking out the engine with the tranny attached would be. Remove the inspection port on the bottom of the tranny, unbolt the torque converter, and you should be good to go on that end. Most I've had to do is slide the trans back a little, you shouldn't have to take it out completely.
     
  20. Oct 6, 2017 at 5:53 PM
    #20
    Dalandser

    Dalandser ¡Me Gustan Las Tacos-mas!

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    If they did a leak down test they'd be able to tell you what was causing your low compression in the cylinder. A compression test won't tell you where you're leaking from. Make sure that they were talking about a leakdown test. Otherwise they're shooting in the dark.

    If they did a leak down test and found that your engine isn't losing pressure through the exhaust or intake valves, the coolant passages, or the mating surfaces, then you'd maybe be looking at requiring a new short block (aka bottom end) because of worn piston rings or a gouged cylinder that can't hold pressure. If that's the case, skip the short block and get a salvaged engine - they don't know if a head is cracked and causing issues or going to cause issues down the line until the engine is torn down. Plus you wouldn't find a good short block for any cheaper than a complete engine once you consider the added cost of head gaskets and head bolts. If you do need a new block (if what they're telling you is indeed true at the dealership based on a leakdown and other tests) then you'll be swapping the engine out either way.

    Most of the tools you'd end up buying will be useful later and the engine hoist and transmission jack can be sold for most or at least half of what you bought them for in my experience. I got my cherry picker for $150 used and the tranny jack for about the same or less with the eternal 20% off one item coupon for harbor freight (it updates every monthu and you can use it every time you go in - here: )
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017

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