Winch power. What's too much?

Morning Fellas,
So I am a long time lurker and going to pull the trigger on an SOS bumper shortly. It's on my Christmas list to myself.
I've never owned a truck with a winch on it before. So I was wondering. I see everyone adding winches that are between 10k and 12k lbs. I get that it's probably better not to MAX out a winch, but since everything is bolted to a plate that is bolted to the frame (essentially). Then is there a risk of frame damage? Maybe some bending? Just something that is running through my head as I am shopping. Thanks for the info.

 

The size of the winch won’t bend the frame. The monkey at the controls will.

People don’t realize the winches max rating is with one or two wraps on the winch drum. Basically fully unwound. Each wrap on the drum increases the diameter and decreases the pulling power. IMO get the biggest winch you can fit physically / weight wise. 9000lbs sounds huge but when you see them in action they are creaking and moaning more than you would imagine. Without doing some calculations I would say you want at least 8500-9500 for a single occupant no gear Tacoma. Then you need to look at the conditions you will need to recover from. Long pulls without a chance to use a snatch block then you may need more base pulling power. Deep mud that sucks your rubber boots off then again you need more power. Always pulling uphill? Only you know your conditions.

 

Weird question then... What about pulling others out? my buddy got stuck in his F-350 (while I did doughnuts around him BTW). No way my lil taco would pull out a 10K truck under my own power. Especially in SC pluff mud. What about me anchoring to a tree and winching him out? Would that cause the frame to bend? I know that'd be sketch AF and I am not planning on doing things like that. EVER. It's just something that was running through my head and I didn't know the answer. He was stuck for 9 hours LOL!

 

How'd y'all get him out ultimately?

 

That falls under NOT MY PROBLEM.

When I go wheeling I subscribe to the theory of be prepared and don’t rely on others to save your ass. His truck is going to be a LOT HEAVIER so you are going to be taking the risk of damage not him. F that. He brought the tank so let him figure out how to get out. Sorry to come off like a prick but I have seen enough people destroy their stuff trying to help the idiots that came unprepared. Then when the damage happens to the good Samaritan’s truck they have no money in their wallet.

One of my FIRST couple of wheeling trips I spent the whole day winching people out who weren’t equipped with the right tires, straps, winch etc. So my day got trashed by clowns who were warned they weren’t prepared yet the trails were tight so we had no choice but to keep pulling them out. Next time out I told this one guy if he wants to ride shotgun fine. But if he tries to run his truck with shitty bald AT’s he is getting left in the bush. Guy got stuck and some other guys played babysitter all day.

So as far as your buddy goes it is up to him to be prepared. Offer to hook his winch line up for him. But unless he is willing to step up and pay your repair bills it isn’t reasonable for a small Tacoma to be winching a 1 ton. Light tug sure but anything but the lightest of pulls and I would say no.

 

Winch and snatch block, go with a 10,000lb winch.

 

There are proper techniques for winching. Never side load as this has the biggest chances of damage. I usually spool out a ton of line to keep my angles straighter. Plus it gives me more power as commented above. That’s why I say it isn’t the winch that will bend or break your stuff it is the operator. Proper technique and knowing when to admit defeat are more important than having too much pulling power. Your 8000lb winch with a snatch block multiplies to 16,000lbs of potential pulling power which in of itself isn’t going to cause damage. But if you have a massive side load and pulling sideways across the tires with massive force stuff gets ripped off fast. The same situation pulling straight and rolling on the tires while using the right driving technique can be a cake walk.

So to answer one of your questions yes you can pull your buddy out while tying yourself off. But yes you can also damage a ton of stuff. Technique and experience are your friends. As I said before knowing when to admit defeat will save a lot of equipment. I wish I could find the video from last year where a guy got his truck struck and they basically ripped the front axle out while tugging him sideways.

I found it.....

https://youtu.be/HJA3J--g_yI

 

Tow truck. They got stuck too....

 

I hear ya! That looks awful. You know dude was all: "hold my beer, I got this" I definitely don't want to be one of those guys so I'm glad I am doing my research here. I don't go out that often and keep it pretty mild since I don't have a lot of extra stuff to be prepared.... yet. Working on that.

My buddy in the 350 is one of my best friends so I couldn't leave him hanging. He was on a vacant lot, looking at property so it wasn't like there were a lot of people around to get him out of a bind.

 

https://youtu.be/wA4VBNxltBc

 

In the same boat... thanks for the great questions... learning a lot to research further!

 

I'm no winch expert here but wouldn't more wraps of cable on the drum increase its diameter and increase the pulling power?

 

Best explaination I've found, and better than I could explain it personally.

As rope is stacked up onto the drum, you are effectively changing the gear ratio of the winch by increasing the diameter of the winch drum. To help explain this, think about that old 15 speed bike you had back in the day, it had 3 driving sprockets in the front at the pedals. When the chain was on the smallest sprocket, you had the most power and could climb steep hills. This is the same as spooling cable onto the 1st layer of your winch drum. When you moved the chain to the middle sprocket, you had less power, but more speed. On the largest sprocket, you had the least power, but most speed

 

That poor Cherokee. Should have pulled back out of the hole and not further into it and with smooth slow pulls, not rapid tugs. Speed is not your friend when recovering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw1xZxUssfs

9,000-10,000lbs for light recovery. 12,000lbs so you dont have to unspool your full cable to get the pulling power. Snatch blocks also help a ton (doubles your pull force if used properly). But ultimatly a winch should be a last resort if 4lo cant get you out. And same goes as the other posters above, the winch on my jeep was for self recovery

 

More wraps on the winch drum would decrease relative power. It is like mounting bigger tires without regearing your diffs.

 

@Cold_Toad has this exactly right. The bicycle gearing analogy sums this up in the clearest example.

I have one of those portable Warn pullzall 120v winches. While it is rated at 1000lbs that is with one wrap. The manual rates the full drum pull at only 550lbs IIRC. So IF the same numbers applied your 8000lb winch only has 4000lbs pulling power as it approaches full drum. In some cases you just need to find a farther anchor point. However sometimes you are in situations where you have limited anchor points so you pick the tree or whatever works regardless if it is the ideal distance from your rig.

I suggest everyone do some research on YouTube regarding winching. After watching a number of videos you will get the right idea about proper and simply dangerous winching techniques. Winching can KILL. I don’t want to fear monger but it can be extremely dangerous with more force than many realize. If part of your rigging or line fails that force is like a huge rubber band. Hooks can fly huge distances and go through windshields or take out bystanders. Really anything metal or of weight in the rigging. I won’t get into all of the basics as there are videos that do a great job. Just watch a ton of them and you will figure out the good from bad advice really quick. Being stranded is bad. Being stranded with a serious or life threatening injury from a recovery gone bad and deep down a trail could be catastrophic.

 

... To be fair, he DID get him unstuck...

 

I can’t wait to do the 30mph run and tug with your truck. It will be worth the 20 some hour drive to Florida. Let me know when I can take it out and do some recoveries.

 

I'll actually be about 5 hours from you next week, come on I'll bring the rope.