Pelfrey Informational Thread - One Post Condensed Version

I appreciate it.

Now what I am about to say is a "Your Results May Vary Situation"
I did go by my bank today which is a credit union and explained the situation and what I was looking to do.
The assistant manager filled out paperwork titled "Written Statement of Unathorized Debit/Credit" I am home today, but I will try and scan and upload the document with my phone here in a little while once I redact my information off of it.

Essentially, it states that yes, that I have examined the attached bank statement and that yes that the debit/credit was unauthorized or improper. She classified it as an unauthorized entry and that I further stated that Yes, I authorized Pelfreybilt to originate one or more ACH entries to debit funds from my account, but on a specified later date, I revoked that authorization by notifying Pelfreybilt in the manner specified in the authorization and did not receive communication or confirmation for that.

Now, one thing to note... this typed up under the assumption that Pelfreybilt was a company and not two individuals that I am trying to obtain money back from. So I am not sure if this will make any difference or not in the proceedings.

I will have to wait to hear from the main branch accounting department on everything to see if I am able to get anything back but the way she made it sound is that since I have all my paperwork in order and everything printed off, if they need more information or want to know more, to just send it to them asap to keep the ball rolling. She said 7-10 days, but that it never takes that long, so hopefully will hear something sooner rather than later.

That I am not sure of. But I would assume that it would be the court Trustee possibly?

 

Well I see I'm listed with and incorrect address, guess that means the letter wont reach me. This may have been answered and if so I apologize I just cant waste anymore time on this. So I if your are listed does this mean these are all the people they owe money to or have outstanding orders? Also it is my limited understanding of chapter 7 that when they liquidate pelfrey assets this money will be divided up amongst everyone? And given the situation there is likely to be a major discrepancy in the amount they get from liquidation vs the amount they owe. Therefore if my Credit card and bank (2 separate purchases unfulfilled) dont get the money we are all looking at getting a few dollars if were lucky. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Just trying to swallow losing thousands of dollars and explaining it all to my wife.....

 

Instead of me just saying something that could be completely and utterly wrong...

Just read here
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/can-business-owes-money-files-bankruptcy-734.html

https://www.ehtc.com/resources/news...ney-from-a-Business-that-Filed-for-Bankruptcy

 

@ETXTacoma thanks, I read that already. That's where I got the idea that the money is likely gone if you didnt hit the panic button before they filed. My CC said their investigation would take up to 90 days...

 

Pester them is all I can say on that...

 

Hello all,

I too have been burned having gone for the works front and rear aluminum bumper, front to back full aluminum skids, sliders w/filler plates and lights for the bumpers (I'm NOT a lawyer).

With that all said:

1.) Is it just me or is the business website still up and running for individuals to place orders and for them to take payments?

2.) I contacted the LED company that they sell lights for and asked if they would honor my receipt for goods paid for but never received in turn I'll sign a notarized release stating that I hereby release SAID LED company from any suit personally and or class action. The company did respond and will get back to me late today and or tomorrow (I will now proceed to contact the winch company asking the same).

3.) Criminal prosecutions. Filing bankruptcy won’t stop a criminal case.

• Fraud. If you’re a victim of fraud and bring a lawsuit to obtain satisfaction, you might be able to file or continue the lawsuit during the bankruptcy case. Many debts that arise from fraud aren’t discharged in bankruptcy, but first, either the bankruptcy court or a state court has to determine if the debt arose from fraud.

4.) Can we proceed with the filing of a Criminal case against the company (we need to start with compile everyone's information and what goods and or services they paid for from said company) NOTE if you already received FULL restitution please DO NOT join this Class Action Criminal Lawsuit.

I will get everything put together: Information as its provided to me about each individual, the goods and services they never received / amount loss / seeking of legal counsel / what would be the cost of legal counsel / anythings else I've missed.

 

I would call the San Diego FBI Office and ask to speak to a cyber agent or financial crimes agent, they might be able to give you some advice, advise them that the site is still up and Pelfrey was taking money all the way up to the filing.

 

@JustEd just going to reply to you in red

Hello all,

I too have been burned having gone for the works front and rear aluminum bumper, front to back full aluminum skids, sliders w/filler plates and lights for the bumpers (I'm NOT a lawyer).

With that all said:

1.) Is it just me or is the business website still up and running for individuals to place orders and for them to take payments?
The website is still up and running, but everything is out of stock and you cannot order anything from the website. It has been that way since before Labor Day weekend from what I recall.

2.) I contacted the LED company that they sell lights for and asked if they would honor my receipt for goods paid for but never received in turn I'll sign a notarized release stating that I hereby release SAID LED company from any suit personally and or class action. The company did respond and will get back to me late today and or tomorrow (I will now proceed to contact the winch company asking the same).
Good to hear on that, glad that companies are stepping up to help out customers wronged by a reseller of their product.

3.) Criminal prosecutions. Filing bankruptcy won’t stop a criminal case.

• Fraud. If you’re a victim of fraud and bring a lawsuit to obtain satisfaction, you might be able to file or continue the lawsuit during the bankruptcy case. Many debts that arise from fraud aren’t discharged in bankruptcy, but first, either the bankruptcy court or a state court has to determine if the debt arose from fraud.

This is a question, I cannot answer, and would be better suited for a Lawyer or local law enforcement like FBI because of the potential for fraud if you suspect that.

4.) Can we proceed with the filing of a Criminal case against the company (we need to start with compile everyone's information and what goods and or services they paid for from said company) NOTE if you already received FULL restitution please DO NOT join this Class Action Criminal Lawsuit.

This is also a question I cannot answer and would be better suited for a lawyer, IANAL, or know anyone that is that could help me Pro-Bono and I don't have lawyer money.
I just know what Chapter 7 Bankruptcy says when it comes to being a creditor and being able to do financial legal proceedings against them. which you cannot, my Google-Fu on the other spectrum is not turning up much either.
You would just have to have a pretty good case for what you are wanting to try and do to be able to have a criminal case brought forth.

I will get everything put together: Information as its provided to me about each individual, the goods and services they never received / amount loss / seeking of legal counsel / what would be the cost of legal counsel / anythings else I've missed.

 

So where is everyone at with fund recovery? I heard from my Credit Union a short time ago about my ACH payments (NOTE: I also work for/in my Credit Union) not good news… they can file a claim and your said loss funds may come back to you for a short period of time BUT since I’m listed in their filings bylaw they’ll come back to me and state there’s a line that states whom is to be paid 1st, 2nd, 3rd and etc if and when funds are available, thus they'll re-debit my account. . . DANG IT! Pressing on with finding legal counsel for a criminal case to be brought forth.

 

I’m getting nervous.. I did the dispute with USAA back in the 1st, it was CC, nothing yet. It seems like others have already gotten responses from USAA in a much shorter period of time.

 

IANAL. That being said, I don't understand how their personal bankruptcy affects your claim with Pelfreybilt Off-Road, Inc. My invoices were from the corporation, not them personally.

They, essentially, have nothing to do with one another, unless through a legal action you bring claims against the company and the Pelfreys personally. As they seemingly ran their company very poorly, I assume it would not be difficult to pierce their corporate veil. Listing us in their personal bankruptcy may be a preventative measure for when claims are brought against both them and the corporation.

 

Where can I view the filling to see if I am listed as I made an order on 8/14?

 

PMing you.

 

Sent.

 

Ok, @ETXTacoma has just touched on something that I can shed a bit of light on further, and I think this will help others understand what their focus should be. I think what most people are confusing is that Pelfrey's in bankruptcy will directly affect all attempts to get money back for unfulfilled product purchases. Bankruptcy will only affect people who handed them cash for purchases, or paper checks in hand, literally. All the merchant accounts, be it ACH or Card, require a merchant application, with a personal credit check, etc.. it literally is just like applying for a loan... Now here is WHY the process of getting a merchant account for Card and/or ACH is much the same as getting a mortgage or loan... it is simply an extension of credit by a bank or a banking affiliate (third party processor, merchant account provider, etc)...

The point I am making is, once the merchant account provider approves an application, a contract is signed, and regardless of the merchant's corporate structure, LLC, Inc., LLP, the account is always personally guaranteed by officers, shareholders of said company applying for the merchant account. Now the reason for merchant account providers making every approved applicant guarantee personally is because that merchant account provider IS LIABLE for every transaction their merchants process, the personal guarantee erases something called 'piercing the corporate veil' in legal lawsuit world... If a merchant account was granted to a company and no personal guarantee was signed, then the merchant account provider cannot sue past the contracted party, being the company LLC or Inc. that is the merchant of record. Banks do not like to lose money.

If you're following me here, then you should understand that the Pelfrey bankruptcy is not to protect them from customers, its to protect them from banks coming after them for transactions processed that are being charged back, and personal creditors like credit cards, mortgages, etc.
... Still following, heres the 'money shot' (excuse pun). If your purchase from them was not cash-in-hand or a paper check, rather any electronic method,... be it either ACH, Credit, or Debit Card, you are completely able to get your money back, you do not need to involve yourself with the bankruptcy at all because you are not getting your money back from them.

The banks that underwrote, and approved their ACH/Credit/Debit Card merchant accounts are liable. There is no question to this, it is a basic surety that is written in the rules for NACHA (National Automated Clearing House Association, aka ACH), Visa, MasterCard, Discover, all require of banks in order to participate or use their 'electronic network' and maintain the integrity of said networks. So, what that means in terms regular people speak, if you want to play then you must be able to back up everything you do. It literally is that simple.

Since bank A, B or C approved, and allowed the Pelfreybilt company/website/company owners to process transactions and take money from customers, bank A, B, or C is liable if the merchant becomes insolvent. And just for clarity, lets say A, B, or C bank that granted the ability all of a sudden goes belly up, then the network takes the hit.

There are always three sides to a transaction, the issuing bank (customers credit/debit/checking account), the network (V, MC, D, ACH), and the acquiring bank (the merchant account provider). The only time there are not three sides to a transaction is AMEX, because Amex is a bank, and a network, and an issuer and a merchant account provider, all in one, they are their own entity, completely, and for those who paid with AMEX, just in case, AMEX ALWAYS takes the cardholder side, almost never will they take the merchant side in a dispute.

SO, focus on dealing with your respective method of payment, if you paid by ACH, contact your bank, if you paid by Debit, contact your banks debit dispute dept, if you paid by a credit card, then contact the issuer which also may be your bank, for example, Chase Sapphire is a credit card.

DO NOT SETTLE FOR A NO, DO NOT TAKE WHAT THE CUSTOMER SUPPORT REP ON THE PHONE SAYS AS GOSPEL, THEY ARE ALMOST ALWAYS WRONG... if your debit/credit card was a Visa you have 540 days forward of the original transaction date. If you have a MasterCard debit/credit card, you have 120 days from the latest promised date of delivery, or 120 days from the insolvency of the business... if ACH, you have 60 days but you can demand a 'REG E' form be done which basically puts it into review by NACHA, and it should not be denied IMO....

Sorry for the bible length post but just want you all to know that the reason Visa, MasterCard are even in business is because you have no recourse in cash world, that was the original marketing and idea behind cards instead of cash back in the beginning of Visa and MasterCard days in the 50s and 60s..

edited to add info;
One more thing, if YOU initiated the transaction, i.e. sent them money, like a wire, or one of those 'PayPal-like' methods within your bank, or PayPal friends-and-family, then your recourse is the legal route... if THEY initiated the transaction, meaning they used one of their merchant accounts, then you have the recourse of the respective network used as mentioned above (V, MC, D, Amex, ACH)

 

@scary_larry

 

This may help you. Or like @indy500driver just posted, deal with your bank, not necessarily with the bankruptcy.

 

Awesome info. Thank you!

 

It wasn’t a front.

 

Let’s keep this thread on point on what factually transpired and how people can attempt to get their money back.