Enough Already! Your Truck's T, HP and RPM Explained

Grossomotto · Oct 24, 2018

I’d take a Ford Focus MT

https://youtu.be/K5xkwq3CynA

Grossomotto said: ↑

Agreed, get the RPMs up

For some reason there’s a consensus here that thinks high RPMs are bad for the engine for some reason.
Click to expand...

BlueFalconActual said: ↑

I can't believe Toyota put a minivan engine into a truck in combination with this stupid 6 speed transmission that changes gears all the time.

I can't wait to buy a Ford Ranger that has a Focus engine in combination with a 10 speed transmission.
Click to expand...

MOC221_ · Oct 24, 2018

Grossomotto said: ↑

I’d take a Ford Focus MT

https://youtu.be/K5xkwq3CynA
Click to expand...

Yeah, but not after he's done thrashing the everloving snot out of it lol. Love the vids.

Grossomotto · Oct 24, 2018

Talk about high revs!

Can’t believe the Toyo tires lasted the length of the video

MOC221_ said: ↑

Yeah, but not after he's done thrashing the everloving snot out of it lol. Love the vids.
Click to expand...

Tacoma2020 · Oct 24, 2018

hiPSI[OP] initial post: ↑

I don't know how many threads are here that start with "My truck is slow" or "My truck has no power" or, my favorite, "My truck shifts too much!"

Let me explain.

Your truck has plenty of horsepower. 278 to be exact.
Your truck has plenty of torque too. 265 lb. ft of it.

So why do so many think the above figures are not enough? I mean, it takes around 7.5 seconds to go 0-60 and that's in line with other vehicles with close to the same weight. What's wrong?
I'm pretty sure it's the last variable, the elusive RPM. Can't see it, can't smell it, but you sure can hear it!
Let's talk relationships. No, not that kind, mathematical relationships! You see, a lot of things in life can be shown through math. Let's go:

Horsepower Formula
HP= (T*RPM)/5252 yes, it is that simple. 5252 is a constant derived from a... never mind but time is involved.
So, if that is the Horsepower formula, the Torque formula is, with a little Algebra:
T= (HP*5252)/RPM

So now that we have those out of the way, let's see how they apply to our trucks and why our trucks have no power, shift all the time and are just generally big piles of dogsh... Anyway, we need both Torque (gets you going, pulls things up hills, etc) and Horsepower (keeps you going, since it is a function of Torque and RPM)

Here's a fun 3.5L fact:
Maximum Torque is attained at 4600 RPM
Maximum HP is attained at 6000 RPM (!)

Fun 2.7L Fact:
Maximum Torque is attained at 3800 RPM
Maximum HP is attained at 5200 RPM

Do any of you see any RPM above that is less than 3800? No? That means that YOU ARE GONNA HAVE TO REV THAT ENGINE UP TO AT LEAST 3800 RPM TO EVER SEE ANY MAXIMUM OUTPUT. Seriously. And for the V6 you need 4600 RPM to feel the good stuff!

(Another Fun Fact: Torque and Horsepower will always be the same numerical value at 5252 RPM. Cool right?)

Bottom line, TLDR, etc,
You have to push the pedal down with this engine. Newsflash: You had to push the pedal down on the 2nd Gen Tacoma too. Seriously.
This engine is designed to run at higher RPM's. It will run fine, It will last. Yes, with the automatics it will shift... a lot. It will shift because you are expecting more torque yet you are keeping the engine at the same power output (cruise control is a fine example) so your truck takes matters into its own hands and shifts for you. It will shift when going up hills because you are trying to maintain a speed (Horsepower) but it needs more torque to keep that same speed so it again, shifts for you.

People will argue that its just programmed wrong. Programmed for efficiency they say. Well, of course it is. That's what most people want out of a vehicle and it comes at the expense of a bit of what some call "drivability." Yes it shifts a lot but it does so to improve mpgs. Want to improve the shifting a bit? OV Tune has a thing that will change the shift points and changes the power around a bit. Some people are just fine with their truck the way it is. Some people just bought the wrong vehicle to start with... should have bought a race car or something.
Personally, I think that most (not all but most, especially with the new models) people who are dissatisfied have came from a vehicle that was a lot different than this truck. I came from a 4Runner with the 4.0. You had to push that pedal down too. This truck is similar to the 4Runner. But this truck is not a BMW. Or an Audi. Or a 7.11L Power Stroke Diesel. Or a Miata, or a Surburban, or a Civic. It's a Tacoma.
Click to expand...

Gotta love it when a guy with a manual feels the need to preach to the masses with automatics.

hiPSI · Oct 24, 2018

MOC221_ said: ↑

Love all the math, science n stuff.

I was right with you until this -

To each their own, but it's not really credible making statements about OVtune as fact along with the rest of the well written facts and figures you gave. If you put an "IMO" in there, well that's fair ball I guess. More to the point, why mention the tune at all? I mean, you did that for a reason. I think you know that anyone reading this has also seen the OVtune threads on here and perhaps discussions on social media.

To the many that are cracking their knuckles and about to keyboard warrior me to death with accolades for the 3rd gen, don't bother. I like my truck, I enjoy driving it every day. I chose to put money into it to make it better - for me. You like yours, that's great and I believe you. I'm also not defending Mat or his product, it speaks for itself. Check out the review thread.
Click to expand...

They are really the only one of a few who can actually give a bit of change. Credit where due.

smikels · Oct 24, 2018

A whole lotta fanboys in here.. They not to happy when ya complain about the truck. I like the truck however most people don't like the 5th and 6th gutless gears. The tacoma doesn't get the best gas mileage either. I mean heck if it was getting 30 mpg then maybe we wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Full sizes weigh more are more powerful and get better gas mileage however. I like hearing the truth as much as the next guy. But I don't piss in the wind and call it rain either.

LivinOnEdge · Oct 24, 2018

smikels said: ↑

A whole lotta fanboys in here.. They not to happy when ya complain about the truck. I like the truck however most people don't like the 5th and 6th gutless gears. The tacoma doesn't get the best gas mileage either. I mean heck if it was getting 30 mpg then maybe we wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Full sizes weigh more are more powerful and get better gas mileage however. I like hearing the truth as much as the next guy. But I don't piss in the wind and call it rain either.
Click to expand...

What full size gets better gas mileage? I see comparable numbers but still nothing actually better.

Lt. Dangle · Oct 24, 2018

If I want to DD something the size of a Uhaul, I'll just go rent a Uhaul.

tonered · Oct 24, 2018

sdfuller88 said: ↑

Your math is wrong. I don't see a variable for +5hp stickers in your equation
Click to expand...

But, CAI!

hiPSI · Oct 24, 2018

smikels said: ↑

A whole lotta fanboys in here.. They not to happy when ya complain about the truck. I like the truck however most people don't like the 5th and 6th gutless gears. The tacoma doesn't get the best gas mileage either. I mean heck if it was getting 30 mpg then maybe we wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Full sizes weigh more are more powerful and get better gas mileage however. I like hearing the truth as much as the next guy. But I don't piss in the wind and call it rain either.
Click to expand...

Show me the data please.

smikels · Oct 24, 2018

LivinOnEdge said: ↑

What full size gets better gas mileage? I see comparable numbers but still nothing actually better.
Click to expand...

Here are 2 that get better mpg. I towed with an eco-boost. It was a dream to tow with. I didn't know I was towing. The tacoma screams like a rape victum to keep up. I mean I do like the tacoma. But I am not a fan of everything. Don't understand while people get upset if you say you don't like something about the truck. lol

The Ridgeline only comes with one engine option: a 280-horsepower V6 engine mated to a six-speed automatic transmission. It returns 19 mpg in the city and 26 on the highway with rear-wheel drive.

The F-150 is one of the most fuel-efficient vehicles in our full-size truck rankings, regardless of engine choice. With its 325-horsepower, turbocharged 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6 engine, it gets an EPA-estimated 20 mpg in the city and 25 on the highway. You can get it in the base XL trim for a $995 upcharge.

If you choose the F-150’s 290-horsepower, 3.3-liter V6 base engine, you’ll enjoy similar fuel economy estimates of 19 mpg in the city and 25 on the highway.

With its base 159-horsepower four-cylinder engine and standard automatic transmission, the rear-wheel-drive Tacoma gets an EPA-estimated 20 mpg in the city and 23 on the highway. The optional V6 earns 19 mpg in the city and 24 on the highway, making its combined fuel economy the same as the four-cylinder.

US Marine · Oct 24, 2018

Why not do performance upgrades such as ...

Ported polished cnc cyl heads (make them flow more air)

More aggressive cam profile

Larger throttle body

Looser torque converter

Performance valve body for quicker firmer shifts

Can't believe no one with a 3rd gen hasn't done the performance parts mods yet !! . You could easily get 600plus hp and have ear to ear grin everytime you push the loud pedal !!!

Ensemble88 · Oct 24, 2018

hiPSI[OP] initial post: ↑

I don't know how many threads are here that start with "My truck is slow" or "My truck has no power" or, my favorite, "My truck shifts too much!"

Let me explain.

Your truck has plenty of horsepower. 278 to be exact.
Your truck has plenty of torque too. 265 lb. ft of it.

So why do so many think the above figures are not enough? I mean, it takes around 7.5 seconds to go 0-60 and that's in line with other vehicles with close to the same weight. What's wrong?
I'm pretty sure it's the last variable, the elusive RPM. Can't see it, can't smell it, but you sure can hear it!
Let's talk relationships. No, not that kind, mathematical relationships! You see, a lot of things in life can be shown through math. Let's go:

Horsepower Formula
HP= (T*RPM)/5252 yes, it is that simple. 5252 is a constant derived from a... never mind but time is involved.
So, if that is the Horsepower formula, the Torque formula is, with a little Algebra:
T= (HP*5252)/RPM

So now that we have those out of the way, let's see how they apply to our trucks and why our trucks have no power, shift all the time and are just generally big piles of dogsh... Anyway, we need both Torque (gets you going, pulls things up hills, etc) and Horsepower (keeps you going, since it is a function of Torque and RPM)

Here's a fun 3.5L fact:
Maximum Torque is attained at 4600 RPM
Maximum HP is attained at 6000 RPM (!)

Fun 2.7L Fact:
Maximum Torque is attained at 3800 RPM
Maximum HP is attained at 5200 RPM

Do any of you see any RPM above that is less than 3800? No? That means that YOU ARE GONNA HAVE TO REV THAT ENGINE UP TO AT LEAST 3800 RPM TO EVER SEE ANY MAXIMUM OUTPUT. Seriously. And for the V6 you need 4600 RPM to feel the good stuff!

(Another Fun Fact: Torque and Horsepower will always be the same numerical value at 5252 RPM. Cool right?)

Bottom line, TLDR, etc,
You have to push the pedal down with this engine. Newsflash: You had to push the pedal down on the 2nd Gen Tacoma too. Seriously.
This engine is designed to run at higher RPM's. It will run fine, It will last. Yes, with the automatics it will shift... a lot. It will shift because you are expecting more torque yet you are keeping the engine at the same power output (cruise control is a fine example) so your truck takes matters into its own hands and shifts for you. It will shift when going up hills because you are trying to maintain a speed (Horsepower) but it needs more torque to keep that same speed so it again, shifts for you.

People will argue that its just programmed wrong. Programmed for efficiency they say. Well, of course it is. That's what most people want out of a vehicle and it comes at the expense of a bit of what some call "drivability." Yes it shifts a lot but it does so to improve mpgs. Want to improve the shifting a bit? OV Tune has a thing that will change the shift points and changes the power around a bit. Some people are just fine with their truck the way it is. Some people just bought the wrong vehicle to start with... should have bought a race car or something.
Personally, I think that most (not all but most, especially with the new models) people who are dissatisfied have came from a vehicle that was a lot different than this truck. I came from a 4Runner with the 4.0. You had to push that pedal down too. This truck is similar to the 4Runner. But this truck is not a BMW. Or an Audi. Or a 7.11L Power Stroke Diesel. Or a Miata, or a Surburban, or a Civic. It's a Tacoma.
Click to expand...

Oh great, thanks a lot man. What am I supposed to complain about now? I already discovered the tire calculator so I can't even ask people about max tire size on stock anymore... Please don't take this from me...I'll have nothing left....

LivinOnEdge · Oct 24, 2018

smikels said: ↑

Here are 2 that get better mpg. I towed with an eco-boost. It was a dream to tow with. I didn't know I was towing. The tacoma screams like a rape victum to keep up. I mean I do like the tacoma. But I am not a fan of everything. Don't understand while people get upset if you say you don't like something about the truck. lol

The Ridgeline only comes with one engine option: a 280-horsepower V6 engine mated to a six-speed automatic transmission. It returns 19 mpg in the city and 26 on the highway with rear-wheel drive.

The F-150 is one of the most fuel-efficient vehicles in our full-size truck rankings, regardless of engine choice. With its 325-horsepower, turbocharged 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6 engine, it gets an EPA-estimated 20 mpg in the city and 25 on the highway. You can get it in the base XL trim for a $995 upcharge.

If you choose the F-150’s 290-horsepower, 3.3-liter V6 base engine, you’ll enjoy similar fuel economy estimates of 19 mpg in the city and 25 on the highway.

With its base 159-horsepower four-cylinder engine and standard automatic transmission, the rear-wheel-drive Tacoma gets an EPA-estimated 20 mpg in the city and 23 on the highway. The optional V6 earns 19 mpg in the city and 24 on the highway, making its combined fuel economy the same as the four-cylinder.
Click to expand...

The Ridgeline is not a truck...

But seriously, I had a F-150 ecoboost, I got 15mpg combined. My Tacoma right now is getting 23.

KkelX4 · Oct 24, 2018

LivinOnEdge said: ↑

What full size gets better gas mileage? I see comparable numbers but still nothing actually better.
Click to expand...

My buddy has a 2018 6.7L V8 1500 Sierra. Crew cab Short box. Same Mileage as Taco.

1500 Eco diesel gets better than stated fuel economy, I see 32MPG on my buddy's when we're on trips.

Heck, my buddies dad "grandpa drives" his 6spd 2006 Cummins and it gets the same mileage.

My dad's new EcoBoost gets Better Economy at 70mph+ Than the taco but it's a ten speed so....

Anyways....

I'm firmly of the opinion that this transmission could have had two shorter overdrive gears. That and a 4:30 gear for all automatics and this thread wouldn't even exist. That's the source of the problems.

Oh and the faulty CPS....
...and the retarded ignition at low RPMs due to over fueling...
...the shaking....
Lag between pedal and engine....
...pedal dead zones... Stuttering...

But it's just the way Toyota designed it right? With a different personality for every owner?

LivinOnEdge · Oct 24, 2018

KkelX4 said: ↑

My buddy has a 2018 6.7L V8 1500 Sierra. Crew cab Short box. Same Mileage as Taco.

1500 Eco diesel gets better than stated fuel economy, I see 32MPG on my buddy's when we're on trips.

Heck, my buddies dad "grandpa drives" his 6spd 2006 Cummins and it gets the same mileage.

My dad's new EcoBoost gets Better Economy at 70mph+ Than the taco but it's a ten speed so....

Anyways....

I'm firmly of the opinion that this transmission could have had two shorter overdrive gears. That and a 4:30 gear for all automatics and this thread wouldn't even exist. That's the source of the problems.

Oh and the faulty CPS....
...and the retarded ignition at low RPMs due to over fueling...
...the shaking....
Lag between pedal and engine....
...pedal dead zones... Stuttering...

But it's just the way Toyota designed it right? With a different personality for every owner?

Click to expand...

Yea its the transmission thats the biggest downfall. I mean, I dont expect it to blow up or anything, the truck is solid, but the powertrain definitely suffers from it. I wont get into detail about the other points you made because its late and im tired

But I love the truck, despite its set backs, Its still the best vehicle Ive ever owned.

KkelX4 · Oct 24, 2018

LivinOnEdge said: ↑

Yea its the transmission thats the biggest downfall. I mean, I dont expect it to blow up or anything, the truck is solid, but the powertrain definitely suffers from it. I wont get into detail about the other points you made because its late and im tired

But I love the truck, despite its set backs, Its still the best vehicle Ive ever owned.
Click to expand...

For sure and I'm trolling a little bit. But there are problems, and design flaws. I've experienced some myself.

Its still my favourite vehicle I've ever owned. I'm so sad I have to get rid of it.

Mtn Mike · Oct 24, 2018

hiPSI[OP] initial post: ↑

I don't know how many threads are here that start with "My truck is slow" or "My truck has no power" or, my favorite, "My truck shifts too much!"

Let me explain.

Your truck has plenty of horsepower. 278 to be exact.
Your truck has plenty of torque too. 265 lb. ft of it.

So why do so many think the above figures are not enough? I mean, it takes around 7.5 seconds to go 0-60 and that's in line with other vehicles with close to the same weight. What's wrong?
I'm pretty sure it's the last variable, the elusive RPM. Can't see it, can't smell it, but you sure can hear it!
Let's talk relationships. No, not that kind, mathematical relationships! You see, a lot of things in life can be shown through math. Let's go:

Horsepower Formula
HP= (T*RPM)/5252 yes, it is that simple. 5252 is a constant derived from a... never mind but time is involved.
So, if that is the Horsepower formula, the Torque formula is, with a little Algebra:
T= (HP*5252)/RPM

So now that we have those out of the way, let's see how they apply to our trucks and why our trucks have no power, shift all the time and are just generally big piles of dogsh... Anyway, we need both Torque (gets you going, pulls things up hills, etc) and Horsepower (keeps you going, since it is a function of Torque and RPM)

Here's a fun 3.5L fact:
Maximum Torque is attained at 4600 RPM
Maximum HP is attained at 6000 RPM (!)

Fun 2.7L Fact:
Maximum Torque is attained at 3800 RPM
Maximum HP is attained at 5200 RPM

Do any of you see any RPM above that is less than 3800? No? That means that YOU ARE GONNA HAVE TO REV THAT ENGINE UP TO AT LEAST 3800 RPM TO EVER SEE ANY MAXIMUM OUTPUT. Seriously. And for the V6 you need 4600 RPM to feel the good stuff!

(Another Fun Fact: Torque and Horsepower will always be the same numerical value at 5252 RPM. Cool right?)

Bottom line, TLDR, etc,
You have to push the pedal down with this engine. Newsflash: You had to push the pedal down on the 2nd Gen Tacoma too. Seriously.
This engine is designed to run at higher RPM's. It will run fine, It will last. Yes, with the automatics it will shift... a lot. It will shift because you are expecting more torque yet you are keeping the engine at the same power output (cruise control is a fine example) so your truck takes matters into its own hands and shifts for you. It will shift when going up hills because you are trying to maintain a speed (Horsepower) but it needs more torque to keep that same speed so it again, shifts for you.

People will argue that its just programmed wrong. Programmed for efficiency they say. Well, of course it is. That's what most people want out of a vehicle and it comes at the expense of a bit of what some call "drivability." Yes it shifts a lot but it does so to improve mpgs. Want to improve the shifting a bit? OV Tune has a thing that will change the shift points and changes the power around a bit. Some people are just fine with their truck the way it is. Some people just bought the wrong vehicle to start with... should have bought a race car or something.
Personally, I think that most (not all but most, especially with the new models) people who are dissatisfied have came from a vehicle that was a lot different than this truck. I came from a 4Runner with the 4.0. You had to push that pedal down too. This truck is similar to the 4Runner. But this truck is not a BMW. Or an Audi. Or a 7.11L Power Stroke Diesel. Or a Miata, or a Surburban, or a Civic. It's a Tacoma.
Click to expand...

I love my Tacoma. After 26000 miles I have no complaints and would buy it again in a heart beat. A couple of comments. Although the 3.5 engine develops the most power and torque at high RPM's, it gets the best fuel economy at low RPM's. When you need the power it's there, but when you need the fuel efficiency it's there too...just not at the same time. It's actually a pretty slick design compromise. Second, I hope you are correct that the engine doesn't mind revving to 6000 RPM. And I hope it's okay maintaining 2-4K RPM for extended periods of time (while towing). It doens't seem natural to me. I don't mind the reduced fuel economy but I hope I'm not putting undo wear and tear on the engine.

jerkwithkeyboard · Oct 24, 2018

I think it should have a 8 speed or even 10 speed trans would help 0-60 and MPG . Yep i said it .
ps i do think the latest ECU update has help me lots , AND The truck now coast like a 4.500 lbs truck should.

Dacon · Oct 24, 2018

Where is the gas pedal? Pictures could help.
I only put it in D and that's all.

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Enough Already! Your Truck's T, HP and RPM Explained

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