3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

I would say that it's not about being a "fan" of one piece of lighting tech over another. Rather, it's being willing to recognize and learn about the reality of halogen projector/reflector housings being designed specifically for halogen bulbs; not LEDs, not HIDs - halogens. The detail in this thread is extensive to prove this simple fact beyond a shadow of a doubt, regardless of perception or personal bias.

If you want LEDs for looks, that's fine - just be honest with yourself about your intentions. If you want to actually be able to see properly at night with LEDs, a swap of the housing itself is required.

It really is that simple.

 

Honestly it sounds like you made a choice based on what your preferences and priorities are. There’s no question that if the aesthetic sure what you were after that the LEDs will work better than halogens. I’m after maximum output and I don’t have an LED DRL to match on my SR, so the color doesn’t bother me.

If my HID kit didn’t have an annoying amount of shake and if I didn’t find even the 4300k to be to blindingly blue in snow I’d still be happily running them.

 

Agreed.

It's not a question of LED v. Halogens. That's the point that several people are missing. It's what is the most effective bulb for the reflector installed in Gen 3 Tacomas.

@crashnburn80's incredibly detailed research and analysis clearly points out the optimum improvement to lighting in the stock reflectors are the halogens.

If you want LEDs, install LEDs. If you want oil lamps from 1910 cars, install oil lamps. It's your truck.

The majority of the people who have migrated to this thread want improved headlight performance. @crashnburn80's work is the ONLY data backed up by science.

 

Ugh! Tagging the right @crashnburn80. Thanks for the heads up. I am happy with them. From what I mentioned originally, they are working for my needs. I got the color match and the visibility from where I sit while driving is more than adequate. Again, not arguing the numbers/data at all. Thanks also for a civilized reply. I guess the helpful comments come after the... well... you get what I'm saying. Thanks!

Reading what I posted, I am being completely honest with myself. I stated I wanted to match color. I'm also stating that I can see properly at night. Not at all arguing the data that halogens work best in our projectors. I'm sure they do! However, I got the color I wanted and I can see just fine with these lights. Could I see better with the halogens mentioned in this thread? Based on the reviews and data, yes. Between the stock bulbs and these LEDs I installed, I don't feel there's enough a difference to make me feel I can't drive safely with the light output I'm getting now. And this isn't based against a garage door.... this is based on my driving experience. And, thank you for a civilized reply.

Thank you for taking time to read my post as I took the time reading crashnburn80's information here as well as other threads he's pitched his info in. At the end of the day, we all make our own decisions on what we research and fine. Even if it goes against data, you try something to see for yourself. For now, the LED's I installed fit the bill for ME. As long as they're not blinding people (and again, they're not) and I feel safe driving with them, giving me what I was after was worth the $38.

 

I agree with you completely but when the thread states "LED vs Halogen...", you have to expect people running LED's to come here and chime in. Whether they're experience is backed by science or not, this thread appears to be inviting people to the discussion. However, the second an LED user posts a response, they get completely destroyed by active posters in this thread. That's simply not cool and not fair. If this is really a thread for people to come to talk about Halogen bulb options... maybe the thread title should be changed so 1.) You all don't need to deal with us "stupid LED users" and you can keep this thread focused on improving lighting from the stock projectors. Thank you as well for your civilized reply.

I'll tap out at this point to let you all continue with the Halogen discussions. Don't want to derail any more than it already has been.

 

This was taken in western NY, about 2am. No street lights, snowing and very windy. I honestly don't think the light output is that bad. The light has no blueish tint in person. They may not compare to the H9s, but they appear better than stock. The 4Runner projectors are a little different than the Tacoma's though.

 

I’ll disagree only slightly because every LED headlight manufacturer is actively promoting their products as being superior in terms of output and projection compared to halogens and that is simply not true. I’m of the opinion that the vast majority of people who change out their headlights to something other than stock bulbs are trying to increase the amount of light they’re getting in front of their trucks so they can see better going down the road at night. Crashnburn80 can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the purpose of this thread and his others was to 1)dispel this false information and 2) to show which halogen options are better than stock. So the VS part is a big part of the thread.

 

I don't believe anyone has been called a "stupid LED user". Frankly, that would seem to be the logical upgrade had it not been for @crashnburn80's exhaustive study - one that he paid for himself. I've yet to see any underlying science for replacing halogens with LEDs in the stock reflectors, and certainly welcome it. It apparently doesn't exist.

Through his work, he saved me a lot of money.

Now, if people are shutting down discussions with obnoxious and demeaning comments, they can be reported to the mods who are very reactive to complaints. The health of this forum relies on their vigilance.

 

So if we are going off the Stock 2019 Tacos...there is NO COMPARISON to the GE +130 bulbs.

Different truck altogether!

With that being said, I would love to see the Morimoto retrofits LED ones when they hit the market.

As @crashnburn80 stated, the GE +130s have a very LOW LIFE.....but their output is AMAZING!

I ordered 3 sets that might make it thru til

 

That’s why the Hella H9s will be the best all around option when the harness is made for plug and play use. Their lifespan is superior and they’re not that far off as far as output goes.

 

Well, I made it down to my dad's shop this past weekend. After a half hour searching through every cabinet, container, box, etc I finally found the dremel.. I can happily say i am running Hellas in my highs and now my lows. Much better than stock now! I wrapped the old bulbs in foam and placed them behind the rear seat just in case I have one go bad early. Pretty happy with the results for the small amount of money I spent! Thank you @crashnburn80!

 

Rather than Halogen Fan Club, I'd say Science Fan Club, but there are certainly very divisive views between that and the LED camp. The fact this is even being discussed is evidence this thread is effective.

The information in this thread is really nothing new. People for years on this forum have talked about how LEDs don't project or "lack throw" and how HIDs did a far better job in projecting light. There have been 3rd Gen posts on H9 low beam swaps. And there has been a 3rd gen thread on wiring upgrades with higher power halogens. What was lacking was an actual science based comparison between all the different light sources.

As @skierd pointed out, dispelling misinformation is a significant part of this thread. While LED manufactures claim their LED is so much brighter than stock, that may technically be very true, but that doesn't at all translate to necessarily providing better output. The common belief prior had largely been that it is a projector, the light source doesn't matter. But it doesn't actually work that way, at all. I had hashed this discussion out so many times with varying success, while at the same time being PM'd by countless people looking to 'fix' their LED upgrades. They almost always initially thought they were great, but then over time realized they couldn't actually see as far. I wanted to put together a resource that scientifically and quantifiably provided answers, to use as a reference.

The intent of this thread is to educate, based on science.

The secondary objective of this thread is to determine what are the best upgrades available, using the scientific method. You simply cannot fight high double digit percentage projection losses with LEDs in halogen housings. Using the intended tool for the designed platform is always going to work best. In this case that is halogen. It is what it is, it has nothing to do with the technology other than that is what the system is designed for. To use an analogy I have used in the past; rifles are far more advanced than bows. But if you have a bow, you want an arrow, not a rifle round. While the rifle round is more advanced, it is ineffective in the bow because the systems are interdependent, just like headlights.

LED headlight threads for LED headlight products are absurdly numerous. Headlight threads based on the designed technology platform of the headlight and how to improve the performance based on the technology it was designed for are ironically very few. My threads are not subjective. As such you end up with a very high density of members in these threads that have significantly higher lighting standards than you find in the LED threads, where science and industry advice is often disregarded entirely. LEDs can certainly be run in the 3rd Gen projector without glare but it would not be the recommended solution compared to a halogen upgrade the housing was designed to support, which will lead to a far better performing headlight.

 

I see your LED upgrade:


And I raise you a performance halogen upgrade, late at night with no street lights. Low beams only, no fogs. The talk of performance halogen beam saturation is a thing.

2nd Gen Osram 85/80w Hyper All Season H4s w/ Headlight Services 12 awg harness providing increased voltage:


In all honesty though, pictures are a terrible way to compare output unless both light sources are being captured in the same photo with the same camera settings. Cameras lie. Scientific instruments do not. And the 4runner has some pretty bizarre side entry projectors, where you get one LED chip facing forward and the LED blade obstructing much of the rear facing chips output.

 

If you like your lights, and aren't blinding other drivers, do what you want. Personally, I prefer functionality over looking good. I'd rather have lights that don't have an aesthetically pleasant color, but function better. It seems like the people that get the most backlash here are the ones that come and state that their subjective observations override objective data driven analysis.

I have done illegal things in my car, with a LEO watching, and not gotten pulled over or ticketed. Maybe they had somewhere more important to be, maybe their shift was almost over and didn't want to deal with a stop that would put them into overtime, maybe it was another of a bazillion other reasons. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I hope you keep winning, and keep enjoying your truck.

 

My eyes tell me the Earth is flat, don't mind the fact that it isn't.

 

In other news, one of the worlds top leading automotive lighting experts saw this thread. He contacted me and challenged the notion of performance H9s and said what we are really seeing is just variances in output among different brands. He said what I likely have is a standard German Philips bulb, and the Philips bulbs are just higher in output compared to the others, but not a true +30 performance build. Same thing with the Hellas. Recall that my 'Philips Vision' bulbs came repackaged, which I was rather annoyed about. Since they were the brightest, I logically thought they were a performance bulb. However I did not compare the Philips bulbs I had to a standard Philips bulb, so there really isn't conclusive scientific data to support the claim. So the only logical thing to do is more testing. I've reordered Philips Vision H9s from amazon.co.uk (a different source than the first time) and I'll compare them to standard German Philips H9s, and might as well throw in the Chinese made Philips H9s as an additional data point. Of course the shipping from the UK is slow, so results will be a little ways out.

 

Your devotion to the truth is inspiring.

Thanks.......................... Frank

 

Presenting correct accurate info is far more important than "being right". I have no emotional attachment to any of the outcomes or products, it is purely objective. This is where many go awry because people develop emotional connections to their favorite brand, or they have strong emotional attachment having spent hard earned money on 'the best' LEDs or 'the best' Silverstars and are unwilling to hear otherwise. A valid logical flaw was pointed out, one that I honestly should have considered, so I will correct it to provide the best information possible.

I'm currently reviewing a pre-publication book for an unrelated industry leading author. In the book he talks about the most effective people "Inspect & Adapt", that is to say that they take in new information, review it and change course accordingly for a better outcome, and they continually iterate on this process to always be improving to buildup their knowledge over time and master something. And then there are those that don't, that deny new information or fail to change course based on new information, and remain stagnant. I was presented new information exposing a flaw in my logic/assumptions, I objectively reviewed it and the point was valid, so I will adapt for a better scientific outcome and continue to improve my knowledge on the subject matter. Simple as that, no emotional attachment.

 

What is the "flaw"? I read the post where you outlined it, but I'm not understanding it in its entirety.

 

I ordered Philips Vision H9s out of the UK, looking for the best price I bought off ebay. Philips bulbs arrived, but they were not in OEM Vision packaging. They were loose and individually wrapped in a box which was not at all inline with the sellers ad. They were Philips German H9s. I tested them, they put out 17% higher lux numbers than Osram. I speculated the difference was significant, therefore they must the high performance bulb. But I never compared those output values to a Philips 'standard' bulb. So while the output measurement numbers are accurate, the +30 Vision claim may not be. Better do diligence testing against a baseline of the same brand is needed, aka Philips Vision vs Philips Standard.