3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Since this seems to be the de facto lighting thread...

So, how good exactly is a HID projector retrofit?

Before we answer this question, we must first examine this chart.

We'll be looking specifically at points 11, 12, and 14, which form the hotspot. These points outline a region. This region roughly contains the highest-intensity light in the entire beam pattern. The more luminous intensity recorded at points 11, 12, and 14, the better we can see down the road...which...is the name of the game, right?

So, without further ado, let's see how a $120 Morimoto Mini H1 7.0 projector stacks up against a bunch of common headlamps, mainly from the last 10-20 years:

Point 11

Point 12

Point 14

All raw data is available for inspection here.

At this point you're probably asking yourself: "well, the projector retrofits look great in pictures, and they are super bright from behind the wheel!" Well, yes, they are, but they're bright in the wrong location.

They're super bright at 4 degrees downward from the height of the lamps. If we assume that our headlamps are 36 inches off the ground (basically a F-150 or similar would have lamps that high), then that means our projector retrofit is flooding the area ~0 to 40 feet ahead of the vehicle with light (simple trig with a right triangle, 36 inch height, and 4 degree angle).

Note how none of the OEM or OEM-replica lamps flood the foreground with light--they all keep a cap on how much light is directed 4 degrees below the horizontal--and they all beat the Morimoto Mini H1 7.0 in terms of how much light is projected in the hotspot.

Foreground light is comforting, but ultimately useless. An abundance of foreground light misleads our eyes. And an abundance of foreground light can ultimately glare other drivers.

I mean, just think about it! 30 MPH is 44 feet/second. What good is seeing the area 0-40 feet ahead of you at 30 MPH? You'll already have covered it in 1 second. Human reaction time is 1.5+ seconds...so you need to see what's 100+ feet ahead, not what's merely 40 feet ahead.

So, with this, I hope that I've helped at least one person "see the light!" Ha!

Ultimately, be very careful about choosing your "upgrades," and in most cases, using new OEM lamps to replace old ones will be a lot better than attempting a projector retrofit, despite what pictures and videos might tell us. If you're going to buy a new headlamp for a projector retrofit, you might as well just buy a new OEM headlamp and forget about the projector retrofit, as this will usually yield better performance!

Remember: our eyes are easily misled, but the numbers don't lie .

 

Very good write up and excellent points. I have no issue sticking with the same style bulb, I just want a whiter light to match the DRLs and give my truck a more modern look.

 

Here's a quote from Virgil, one of the knowledgeable moderators over at the Candlepower automotive sub-forum about a question regarding Morimoto's "testing" procedures, which sort of ties in to the above post as well.

"There are plenty of red (and "reddish") flags here. For one thing, testing out of that part of the world is notoriously unreliable -- there is a strong tendency for lamps to "pass" when they should fail...because the test lab feels loyalty to whoever paid for the test, because there's a connection between the test lab and the maker of the lamp (or just because the lab wants to keep getting business from that maker or that customer)...because lab practices and equipment are not what they should be...because the requirements are not correctly understood or applied. This doesn't happen all the time/every time, but it does happen frequently enough that responsible companies have full testing done by reputable labs with a track record of providing legitimate test results even when that means telling a maker or customer that the device fails.

Speaking of "full testing": the linked tests are very far from complete. There are whole categories of test missing: water and dirt ingress resistance. Vibration resistance. Thermal cycling tolerance. Lens durability (resistance to chemical attack, physical abrasion, ultraviolet exposure, etc). Basically all the tests that show if the lamps will be piles of fallen-apart junk in a year or two. Those tests are important with prices like you're talking about spending.

(0.6D, 1.3R) is one of many test points in the low beam pattern. It is not appropriate or realistic to try to judge whole beam patterns by comparing the intensity at one single test point. Looking at these incomplete tests and assuming (for the sake of argument) that they're legitimate: the LED headlamps' performance looks OK, not awesome and not awful. It's easy to get stars in your eyes because "Oooh, cool, all the newest cars have LED headlamps, they must be better", and there's plenty of marketing efforts to set that hook and reel in your money. But the fact is there are good, bad, and mediocre headlamps of every possible description. Some halogen headlamps are better than some LED headlamps, many (but not all) HID headlamps are better than many (but not all) halogen headlamps, some LED headlamps are better than certain HID headlamps and vice versa, etc. Morimoto's stuff does not have the track record you seem to perceive in terms of its (real) quality and (real) performance. It has gradually been improving, but it still has a pretty long ways to go. These units you're considering will be largely outperformed in any/all realistic terms by a new set of the stock GM headlamps with their HID low beams and halogen high beams (whoever told you you have halogen low beams as standard equipment was not telling the truth). And the performance advantage of the stock lamps will grow even larger with a set of upgraded low beam bulbs (

$209 OSRAM Xenarc Night Breaker Laser D1S Xenon Car Headlight Bulbs (Twin)

these). And, very consistently, the durability and build quality of the GM lamps is far superior to the aftermarket units, too.

Whichever headlamps you wind up choosing, it is crucially important that they must be aimed correctly and carefully using an optical aiming machine (looks like a scope or big video camera that gets placed in front of one lamp at a time) -- NOT with a "shine on the wall" type of method, which is a loose approximation at best."

 

My OCD got the best of me, so I pulled the adapters and flipped the female terminals so Red was to Red!

I took a photo of the adaptor for you this time.

The female plug I trimmed off the hook that’s facing the camera so it’s flat and can pass into the stock H11 male.

The male plug adapter I trimmed the center of the two prongs so it will pass into the H9 bulb.

 

Weird to keep halogens as high beams? Or are you just referring to the stock halogen color? The Philips H9s were the highest performing H9s I tested.

If looking for whiter, you might consider Hella H9 Performance 2.0 bulbs in post #1577 here. They come in just under the Philips H9s in my lux measurement but are whiter in color at about 3500k.

Great post! I would not recommend Morimoto parts for a retrofit. I would definitely suggest if investing in a project like that to use OEM components.

 

It is interesting to note that the peak intensity of the HID retrofit projector is less than that of a 9007 headlamp from the 90s. Note that the HID projector isn't behind a lens yet, so this is a theoretical peak intensity we're measuring. The 9007 headlamp is running at 12.8 volts (government test standard). Most cars feed more than 12.8 volts to the lamps; if not, then you got a bad alternator. And yet even with the halogen headlamp being handicapped, and the HID projector being advantaged...we get...this:

Never judge a book/headlamp by its cover.

 

That isn't surprising. I had OEM HID on my 2006 STi which was quite good and I always felt it was marginal in rain. I used to run a set of yellow Hella 500s on either side of the license plate if the rain was particularly bad.

Our Jeep Grand Cherokee has "meh" headlights, the previous CX-5 we had was horrid at night.

 

Did Crash test/review the

$40 Philips H11 CrystalVision Ultra Upgraded Bright White Headlight Bulb, 2 Pack

Philips H11 led (Japan) yet? Just wondering if I missed it or he hasn’t gotten to it yet?

 

I haven't. I use a smart spectrometer to catalog and share my data which is great to be able to compare any two test I've ever run. The spectrometer uses a smart device (my phone) paired by bluetooth to display and log the data which makes sharing the data and charts super easy rather than me just typing text values. However, I upgraded my phone to the latest iPhone 11 Pro and the app doesn't work. Ugh. So I mirrored my phone back to my previous iPhone XS and now it doesn't work there either. I contacted Asensetek (the maker of the equipment) and they were MIA. So I contacted the North American distributor that I purchased from, Allied Scientific Pro, and they said they were aware of the problem and working on figuring out why it doesn't work. Then I found that Allied Scientific Pro had just acquired Asensetek's lighting equipment assets, meaning I'm sure there is lots of chaos of the transition and coming up to speed and figuring things out, so I'm not really sure about timeline for the fix. I'm still waiting to hear back.
https://alliedscientificpro.com/blo...-passport-assets-by-allied-scientific-pro-143

I could use my standard LED light meter as I did for the KC to Cibie driving light comparison, but then I lack CRI and color temp measurements, and am using two different meters to compare the Philips to other lights, which isn't ideal as the same meter should really be used. I may use yet a 3rd smart device and setup the app there, but then none of the measurements would be logged in my master database, which is also not ideal. So I'm in a bit of a holding pattern at the moment.

 

Which is why you can never assume one type of light is going to automatically better than another. The implementation of each type is critical. There are good and not so good engineering examples of all types of headlights.

 

I'm referring to the stock halogen color. So if I upgrade the H11 I'll want to also upgrade the H9. Then at some point do the fogs but that'll be a whole 'nother story..

 

Right. You are looking at a color change, not a performance upgrade with the H9. You already have the best H9 as stock, so any other H9 halogen, especially a whiter one, will likely not be an upgrade and actually put out less light. The Hella 2.0s I referenced are a little whiter at about 3500k, which will be a close match to the GEs. The Hella 2.0s are slightly lower performing though than the stock Philips H9s.

 

The H11 low beam “upgrade“ is to use an H9 in place of the stock H11 (with modification to the H9 bulb base). And you *already” have an H9 in your high beam from the factory. So there is nothing to “color match”.

The other H11 upgrade is to go with the GE Megalight +130 or GE Xenon +120, both of which are H11 bulbs (they’re just higher performing than stock H11’s). If you go this route, I personally wouldn’t worry about color matching, as your stock H9 in the high beam socket is already the highest performing H9 out there, as Crash pointed out.

You could go with a blue coated H9 bulb to color match a little more closely and lose a bit of high beam performance.

I hope this kinda gets you up to speed here. It’s a lot of info to process if you’re new to the thread.

 

Installed the Hikari Ultra “Eye of Megatron” LED bulbs today. Tested tonight - happy with these.

 

Yes! My head is spinning! lol

I'd rather keep the low beams H11s for now and keep it standard.. Perhaps the term "upgrade" is a misnomer in this case as I juts want whiter light.

If I understand correctly, the H9 high beams color should be unnoticeable when used?

The GE megalights are out of stock on Amazon but the Philips extreme vision and OSRAM night breakers are in stock so looks like it's coming down to those and I'd like to get something by the weekend.

 

The Philips is a 400 hour bulb. The Osram is a ~150 hour bulb (a ~year if you’re lucky), but it will be slightly brighter (splitting hairs here). So, something to consider.

The Osram will be the whiter one of those two options, but not by much. If you used one tonight and the other tomorrow night, I’m fairly confident it’s unlikely you’d be able to tell a difference.

 

Regarding your high beam, if you run the low beam H11 Osram or Philips you mentioned... and then switch to high beam on the road... no, you’re not gonna get the impression that “wow, it’s a totally different color”.

Among these halogen bulbs we’re discussing, the differences are there, but subtle. Start with the H11 upgrade and then see how you like it with your high beam. I predict you’ll be content (and from the drivers seat, you won’t notice much difference in color).

If you’re expecting color differences like when you compare a halogen (even a high performance one) to an LED, you’ll be very disappointed. I mention this only because you said you’re interested in whiter light over performance.

It doesn’t matter what type of halogen you upgrade to (H9 or performance H11)... neither of those is gonna blow your mind as far as color goes when compared to an LED or HID.

to see what I’m talking about... look at the images crash posted early in the thread.

 

I see a lot of discussion about whether LED bulbs work in projectors.

I've seen a lot of people claim that LED bulbs don't work well in projectors but work well in reflectors. But the explanations are akin to "it only rains on our crops when we dance on the 2nd Tuesday of the month and praise the Rain God." In other words: lacking any sort of scientific rigor.

The issue deserves a better examination than that.

First, how does a projector work?



The central heel of the reflector "bowl" (I hate this term) inside a projector is responsible for arguably the most important part of the beam pattern: the distance punch, or hotspot.

The other two zones of the reflector "bowl" are responsible for the foreground and width of the light.

Fun fact: modern projectors are called "polyellipsoidal" projectors because they use 3 ellipsoidal or roughly-ellipsoidal parts to create the beam pattern. Sometimes you'll see the acronym "DE" used to describe lights, like Hella Micro DE Fog Lamp. DE is German for dreiachsig ellipsoidal (triaxial ellipsoidal). No, it does not stand for "diaxial ellipsoidal." If a German engineer grows wings each time a VW hits 100k miles, then a German engineer dies each time someone thinks DE translates to "diaxial ellipsoidal."

So to sum it up: in a projector, the hotspot is formed by the central rear region of the reflector.

In a reflector, this is reversed. The hotspot optics are not centrally located. The foreground and spread optics, however, are centrally located.

Finally, a bit about LED light emission patterns. Below is a polar diagram of the luminous intensity distribution of an incandescent automotive miniature bulb. This is the type of bulb you find in your brake lamp or turn signal lamp. Ignore the separate squiggly lines and imagine them as one line. The distance from the center of the diagram, where the picture of the bulb is, represents the intensity of light emitted by the bulb at that particular angle. You can see that the intensity emitted by the bulb is roughly the same all around the bulb, except for where the base of the bulb blocks the light. This is typical of all incandescent/halogen/filament bulbs--if you hold a glowing halogen bulb in your hand, the intensity is the same no matter how you look at it--from the left, from the right, from above, etc. Unless you look at the bulb from behind the base. Then it appears dark, because the base is in the way of the light.



The latest LED bulbs, like the Diode Dynamics SL1 and Morimoto 2Stroke 2.0, are using the Luxeon Z ES chips. The emission pattern for the Luxeon Z ES chip is below. As you can see, intensity is very high when looking at it dead on (0°). But if you at it sideways, the intensity falls off a cliff. Look at it from even a 45° angle, and intensity is only a percentage of what it is from looking at it dead on.


This is the same information as above, presented in perhaps an easier to understand format (no more polar diagrams!):



So, intensity of light coming from the Luxeon Z ES chip is only ~70% when looking at it from a 45 degree angle. Looking at it dead on gives you 100% of the radiation intensity.

That's all we need to answer why LED bulbs appear to work worse in projectors than in reflectors.

Remember, in a projector, the hotspot is formed by the central "heel" of the reflector cup. Stick a LED bulb in a typical projector, and the chips are not directly illuminating the heel of the reflector cup. Instead, they're staring at the outer region of the reflector cup, which is responsible for the foreground.

Sure, some light falls onto the central heel of the reflector cup, but it's not going to be as intense as the light that falls on the outer region of the reflector.

On the other hand, in a reflector, it's slightly better, as the spread optics are in the center and the hotspot optics are more outwardly located in the upper half of the reflector. The LED chips have a more direct view of the upper, outer facets of the reflector.

The homogeneity of the light emission from a LED bulb at all relevant angles is something that both Americans (SAE) and Europeans (UNECE) are trying to regulate. When you buy a LED bulb today, you're basically hoping that whoever designed the bulb (probably in some third-world country) thought about this issue (among a million other issues). The fact of the matter is that they usually don't think about this issue, and when they do, they can't really solve the issue either due to the budget constraints--who's going to buy a more expensive LED bulb when there are so many <$50 options on Amazon?

Here's a good example of how one major LED bulb company attempted to "solve" the issue with a diffusing lens. The idea is fine, but the implementation, as is typical of products from third-world countries sold for a quick profit, is sloppy. The LED emitter is massive. The interchip spacing is massive. The focus will be non-existent, and a big drip of silicone spreading out the paltry amount of light from an already inadequate chip doesn't help.




And speaking of OPT7: it looks like it only took the NHTSA 3 years to process my report. Better late than never, right?



And while we're on the topic of Luxeon Z ES chips, we need to be careful about LED bulbs advertising the use of Luxeon Z ES chips. Chip choice alone does not make or break a LED bulb design. There's plenty of other factors in the equation, such as geometry and temperature. The thinner the board on the LED bulb, the closer the chips are, and the steepness of the angle to the hotspot optics can be minimized, especially on a projector.

Speaking of temperature:

Below is the 2Stroke 2.0 after a few minutes of operation. Temperature of 115 C. Hmm...





Even worse are the ones with only passive cooling (fins, braids, etc).



The Diode Dynamics run significantly cooler and therefore have better lumen maintenance. That being said, their focus is still poor compared to halogen bulbs, since the interchip space is too big, and this really hurts them in projectors, as well as reflectors.

 

So now I know how to spell polyellipsoidal.

 

But when the pressure is on in a spelling bee that’s when it counts.