3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

crash thanks for all the work youve done. I went and got some DD sports cause of you. I also have wonder how did DD get their pricing so much lower than the baja design stuff?

 

Thank you for getting back to me. You are right, they are not that expensive, I'm going to leave them on Auto. Thanks for the help!!! By the way, since I put them in, I havent even driven at night yet to test them!

 

That is interesting, isn't it? The DD optics are light years more advanced from an engineering standpoint than Baja and the DD optics are more expensive to produce. I don't have a solid answer as to how their pricing is so competitive, but it is a smart move to gain brand traction and displace the competition. Baja may pay a small premium in using 5000k emitters, vs DDs more common 6000k emitters but that wouldn't account for such a huge price discrepancy.

It is worth noting some mainstream LED companies are owned subsidiaries of massive corporate parent companies, Baja is owned by Bestop which is then owned by Kinderhook Industries. Rigid is owned by Truck-lite which is then partially owned by a private equity investment firm. Typically this means meeting high profit ratio expectations of the parent corporations and investors.

Diode Dynamics is still majority founder owned by Paul (same guy that posts in this thread). That typically gives a lot more flexibility and freedom in R&D and pricing then being subjected to an EBITDA margin minimum from 3rd party ownership. KC Hilites is also family owned and operated.

 

There also might be something to their design and product mix. I've never opened my Baja Designs S2 lights, but what surprised me about the SS3 was just how few parts were inside. There's the two-piece chassis with heat fin pins and faceplate, a single piece cast optic with wraparound O-ring, Goretex fabric vent, a copper heatsink/circuit board with emitters and control circuitry, and a rubber-booted Deutsch connector. Not only that, they're designed so that many of the parts can only fit together one way, to eliminate incorrect assembly. I believe Diode Dynamics has their own chip-gun robots and solder ovens, and I know for sure that the final assembly is done in-house by employees at their St. Louis factory.

Also, the entire SS3 line is standardized across the board- they all have the same chassis and circuit board layouts. They just change the emitters, optic castings, and faceplates to get a huge product mix, without having to custom design each configuration.

I still believe Baja Designs has an edge over just about everyone in exotic race lighting, but Diode Dynamics has a real workhorse on their hands that's excellent for 95% of most casual enthusiasts. Especially because their platform offers street-legal auxiliary and fog lighting.

 

Some interesting thermal testing for the Philips passively cooled LEDs vs the Hikari actively cooled LEDs. LEDs were run for 20 minutes in 64 degrees ambient.

The LEDs Philips are hot


As expected with fan cooling, the Hikaris are much cooler, 85 degrees cooler.


It is worth noting the Hikaris pull almost 30% more power. Looking at the drivers, the Hikari runs almost proportionately hotter to the power difference.

Philips driver

 

While the vehicle is in motion, I wonder if the Philips might run much closer in temp to the Hikaris.

 

Not going to get a whole lot of cooling flow behind the headlight, if anything I’d expect it to likely run hotter being in the engine bay.

 

I suppose the housings can handle those temps. People stick them in the oven at 300° just to soften the glue to take them apart.

 

Crash I read somewhere that you're considering the addition of a J581 driving lights thread, which would be pretty interesting to see. Looking at the raw specs for the KC gravity lamp vs. the Diode Dynamics SS3, it looks twice as bright (1310 lux at 10m vs. 665 lux at 10m). This is despite having a power draw of almost half (20W compared to 36W). I'm assuming the KC lamp has two 10W emitters compared to the Diode Dynamics four 9W emitters.

This speaks to the efficiency of having a large 6" reflector, vs the much smaller SS3 optic housing. Very neat.

 

A lot of useful information on this thread, clearly a lot of intelligent people putting time and money into this topic - but I honestly am more confused then ever after reading.

1. What are the most common LED bulbs you guys run?
2. They will work as a plug and play with Tacoma headlights. (I know they won't be perfect)
3. Need to be around $100. Imo, $175+ for bulbs seems excessive for a non bulb enthusiast.

If I'm honest, I can't read through 130+ pages of the memes and bickering - I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate a more straightforward answer to mine above.

Thanks in advanced.

 

1. What are the most common LED bulbs you guys run?
None
2. They will work as a plug and play with Tacoma headlights. (I know they won't be perfect)
H11 is plug and play
3. Need to be around $100. Imo, $175+ for bulbs seems excessive for a non bulb enthusiast.
$8 for a better performing halogen (or $12 COVID pricing)

 

Don’t buy LEDs for halogen headlights.

There. Simple.

 

A large reflector, purposely designed for the application, makes a HUGE difference. I had a pair of Pro Comp 9911 lights using 55W H11 halogen bulbs with 9" reflectors. They were bright AF! Seriously off road use only.

I don't think they make them anymore, but there's still NOS available.

 

Yep. On my to-do list. Large reflectors are the most efficient kind of projection technology, so it isn’t surprising that a 6” reflector out performs 4 small ones. The Pro6 is the highest intensity SAE driving light I am aware of. I’ve got the Pro6s waiting to go on my truck, but the color temp is a little higher than I’d like, while “5000k” they are higher color temp than the 5000k G4’s I was expecting them to match.

No need to read the whole thread. All the updated info is in posts #2 and #3. The best tested replacement LEDs are the Hikari Ultras covered in post #3. Though they are outperformed by an inexpensive H9 halogen swap.

 

People who insist on LED swaps.

 

Are you stuck on LED's because you are after a color change? Or are you looking for improved lighting? Best bang for the buck is going to be the $43 GE+130 halogen H11 bulb. It will outperform nearly every single drop-in LED set. $14 Philips H9 bulbs will be comparable at about $20 less but require modification to fit. If you could spend 200-250 you could go HID which would give you the cool bluer color and also bring the lighting performance that's not even compareable.

Outside of that when it comes to LED's you're paying for how relatively they'll perform which is to say, not very well. The best performers in this category probably are Hakari Ultras or Morimotos

 

Thank you for the updated info posts - I probably skimmed through this.

I care about investing in lighting so I could see better, however, the color change is important as well. Halogens make the vehicle look dated while a cooler color temp will give it a more modern appeal.

Thanks - I will go back and read into the GE+130 as well as the Hakari & Morimoto.

 

Save yourself the money and take the advice from some who spent it lol. Go GE+130 or H9 and trim the small tab. Having a modern appeal and all is nice but your losing performance no matter what LEDs you put in there.

 

If it were me Id go with the cheap H9's or GE130's and save for HIDs.