Death Valley Off-Road Adventures

So I went back and looked at the linked post.

The OP on Facebook is a Patrick Walsh. I just saw he is also the guy who said he took the pics. He also claims a copyright to them. HIS claim is that HE took them last May. Not 3 years ago.

I don't know Walsh and he certainly is just somebody on the internet but looking at his post and his profile I find the Facebook post to be more convincing of Walsh's version than when I first saw it.

So is this one incident or 2? I'm certainly leaning towards it was 2.

 

It very well could be real however, for me it's hearsay until a second source confirms the first. in other words I need corroborating evidence

I searched for 5 minutes and was unable to find a second source in that time frame,s I simply dismissed it as internet noise.

Have you tried finding another source?

 

I found this:

https://www.shutterbug.com/content/...-badwater-basin-salt-flats-abandoning-his-van

Which I guess is the incident you mentioned of 2017. Comparing the 2 photos they look to be of the same van or very close. I'd say that slides the scale back to your position. I used Facebook Messenger to contact Walsh and I will certainly post what his reply is, if he replies.

 

What are the odds that 2 similar vans did the same things 2 seperate times? Granted, the photo on Facebook isn't very clear, but I would agree it's probably the incident from a few years ago, and not recent.

 

On another forum this Flickr album was posted showing the closures along 190 through the park. Looks like they did a thorough job using concrete barriers in many places!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59167599@N03/sets/72157714462932356

 

Navy Times article on the accident report from the Rainbow Canyon (a.k.a. Star Wars Canyon) crash last summer:

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...o0VhTy4zoFl3e-g4ctQythE9jGiCXL8TLVEz-mXCde3sM

Rough conclusion is too low and too fast (duh) but makes it clear no one will ever no for sure what went wrong.

One thing surprising to me is it says he was going 630 mph in full after burner descending through 4,000 feet entering the canyon. That sounds absolutely insane to me. While I’ve only watched 20 or 30 aircraft pass through the canyon over the years and certainly perception of speed is tricky I’ve never had the impression pilots were flying through it that hot. Maybe one of the actual aviators here on TW can comment. I sort of wonder if the speed mentioned is actually from a bit earlier in the flight west of the canyon entrance itself.

 

The gas price sign at PSR is a testament to the times. Probably won’t see that again in our lifetimes. As for the barricades, I couldn’t help but think of Kowalski and his Challenger ...

 

Just did some quick calculations from an in-cockpit youtube video. Took them about 21 seconds to travel 17000 feet(based on a measurement from google earth) calculates out to about 550 mph average. At 630mph you travel the same distance in 18.4 seconds. But in the video you have to figure they bleed speed in the high G turns so their speed entering the canyon is probably higher than the 550 average. The crash took place right after he entered the canyon and had only made 1 turn so it seems as if that speed seems to be somewhat right based on the 1 video i timed. But its just a guess on my part.

 

Nice work! I had been thinking of doing the same thing you just did but also knew given how slowly things get done by me these days that it wasn't likely to happen. Thanks for doing that. And since I've usually been viewing further down the canyon after they've typically done at least two sharp turns to bleed off some speed that probably all adds up. Plus the article wasn't very clear where exactly that speed measurement was from - might have even been before the very first turn entering the canyon.

EDIT: Did a rough check on two videos, one from the cockpit and one from the ground, measuring time from the upper head of the canyon to the last turn at the end and indeed even including the turns through the canyon the average speed through the whole canyon was around 450 to 480 mph. So could be coming into the top plenty fast. And there are videos of F-18s entering with the burner on as well. Not to mention by last spring in the videos there are a ludicrous number of people on the edges of the canyon. No wonder there are obvious use trails all over the place now.

 

I would think the speed number came from the last known RADAR data.

 

Or his wingman who was behind him.

 

Not sure there is radar coverage there that low? He did have a wingman and the wingman’s data recorder would have been available and likely have very similar speed data. The article is just a summary of the actual report so no idea where the speed data came from and not exactly clear where in the flight it was measured.

But anyway my initial surprise at the speed doesn’t seem well founded. There are likely points near the start of the canyon where they are going that fast based on the videos.

EDIT: Lol, cross posted with the more succinct @Airdog

 

You know whats even funnier....I have several star wars canyon videos on my YT page and never thought to check my own....LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j26a5IgYfL0

 

OMG, me too! Didn’t think to check my own either. That’s hilarious...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzBmQMyYDBk

 

There's definitely not coverage in the canyon but my thought was whatever the speed was when last on RADAR. I suppose his wingman would be another source as well. That was just my guess.

It's just amazing to think of the speeds these guys fly the canyon at.

 

Lot of speculation but I can't imagine there's a lot of room for error when you're at balls to the walls speed. My hat is off to those guys no matter what.

 

Oh absolutely! That’s what my “duh” aside in the summary of the report meant. They are essentially suppose to fly too low and too fast. Seems like almost a tautology for the report to mention that as a factor. It is such a dangerous job just to be constantly doing the training required to be a military pilot much less actually enter a conflict.

 

Inherently dangerous job. The simple explanation is "controlled flight into terrain". I'm not sure we will every really know why it happened.

If you're into it, there's a YouTube channel called Smarter Every Day and one of his most recent is a flight with the Air Force Thunderbirds. It's pretty interesting.

 

No reply yet and I don't expect one. The post has been removed or hidden on Facebook. However Mr. Walsh continues to post in that group so I guess he chose to remove the post and not answer my inquiry.