Enough Already! Your Truck's T, HP and RPM Explained

You should have told me you came from a 3.5 eco haha! Man, compared to that, taco is nothing. But you cant really compare them two, not fair.

I came from a 2007 ranger with 4.0, so this tacoma felt like a rocketship when i drove it.

 

what if we already have a race car too? on the bright side i get to send this to all my friends who think i murder motors bc i have a "talent" for driving at red line

 

A lot of guys today have no real point of reference. Granted, I haven't driven a 3rd gen, but needing 4600 rpm to get max torque isn't something that sounds like a good idea to me. Especially with a manual transmission trying to maneuver a trailer at low speed. The torque converter of an automatic transmission really helps offset the lack of torque down low. Modern engines in virtually all trucks are designed to work with an automatic transmission.

The 2nd gens, and to be fair most other modern gas engines are developing torque at about 3500 rpm. Which admittedly isn't much better. There is a reason they don't put manual transmissions in trucks any longer that are intended to tow.

Ford's turbo engines have made a big difference offering max tow down in the 2500-2700 rpm range. That is low enough to make a noticeable difference. Most diesel engines are getting their torque in the 1500-1700 rpm range. Even many of the old school gas engines were in the 1500-2000 rpm range.

The difference between needing 4600 rpm on a 3rd gen and the 3500 rpm of 2nd gens isn't earth shattering, but it is real. Especially when it comes to towing. If you've ever driven a truck that got it's rpm down in the 1500-2000 rpm range you'll start to understand what you're missing out on.

 

4.0L tacoma engine makes peak torque at 4000 rpm. So 600 rpm difference, not a lot if you ask me. The 3.5 has 41 hp more though, quite a bit more.

I completely agree on the torque converter helping with towing. Its great for torque multiplication at low speed. I had to get 2WD low mod to be able to back up trailers or use my truck on the boat launches, without destroying my clutch. Also, tacoma wasnt really designed to be a tow vehicle. Sure it can tow, but if you are towing heavy loads, taco is the wrong vehicle for that.

Other than that, imo the 3.5 with the 6 spd is an amazing combo. Tons of fun.

 

for sure, the other weird thing is the gears are really generous, i can go 20+ mph in 1st so trying to get it that high already has you moving a bit. but i recommend everyone try and finesse it at redline when they drive or even put it one to two gears lower than they think for a day bc it pulls, at 5000 or so rpm(it just go and use your low range once in your life)

 

Are you suggesting MT drivers should try to drive in 4lo at 5k rpm? Or i read it wrong?

 

telling auto drivers to so they will stfu about it not having any power like one of my friends did so i had him keep it high rpm and it does a lot better, but if you are trying to drive it hard i would keep it in that range, otherwise do what you want, taco gears are just wack

 

I've owned my 2020 v6 AT for 3 months now and I'm glad I finally read through this thread. I'm coming from a Prius and a 92 chevy 1500 v6. I'm used to having no power and needing to rev. I love the 3.5 in the tacoma. Sounds really great, it's pretty fast for what it is, and just puts a smile on my face each time I accelerate from a stop. But, I stay in ECT mode. ECT mode is what should be normal. Normal mode is a disaster. I've read through the replies here about Toyota fixing the issues but with the AT, no, they haven't fixed the issues I've read about and also experienced myself. I still have less than 3k miles on mine so I was under the impression more break-in time would help. Or that the ECU was still learning my driving. And then I read this thread and it seems like a lot of people acknowledge the issues.

To me the problem is all in the driving mode programming. ECT mode is perfect. Good throttle response, higher shift points, no 1-2k RPM shuddering, etc. You can still get optimal MPG in ECT mode. You have to be an efficient driver, but you can still get the same MPG's. I just don't understand why after 4 years of 3rd gen we still have the same issue in normal mode. Here is how my daily commute goes in normal mode:

1. Pull out of driveway, head down my street which is a bit downhill but mostly flat. No issues. The truck wants to keep the RPM's in the 1-2k range which is best for MPG's. Since it's a residential street that is flat/downhill I have no issues.

2. At end end of my street I turn onto a 2 lane highway with a speed limit of 55. There is a long swooping hill I have to climb. Gentle grade, maybe only 300 ft of elevation gain but it's a steady hill. This is where the trouble is. In normal mode if I drive it like a person who has ever driven any car you give it ample throttle because I have to go from 0-60 and up a hill. Well, ECU want's me below 2000 rpm. 1-3 usually no problem. Then 4th. It should stay in 4th longer and hit 3-3.5k RPM but instead it shifts to 5th quickly, trying to keep RPM's low. I lose most torque, and I bog down. Mind you, I'm not moving the throttle during this time. Just wanting the truck to accelerate. Still have a lot of throttle. Anyway, it bogs down for a second, ECU downshifts back to 4th and finally it lets it rev because I guess it realizes I'm not letting off the throttle. By this point I'm about halfway up this long hill and up to 50-55mph and it goes to 5th after I ease off the throttle a bit because I'm reaching my desired speed. 6th comes quickly after as I crest the hill and back of throttle even more.

3. I drive through about 10 miles of easy grade rolling hills. On most hills I'm downshifting to 5th to maintain 60 mph. Not really a big deal to me. In 6th at 60mph you aren't turning a lot of RPM's so I understand it needing to downshift. It does so quickly and predictably with just slight blip in the throttle. I've learned to drive it to where it's smooth and effortless in this part of my drive.

4. After those 10 miles I make it to town and back to 35-45mph roads. A bit of stop and go city driving. Again, this is where the trouble is if I encounter any type of hill. It just want's to throw you into the higher gear when you hit 2-2.5k rpm. Sometimes I just yell at it, "Don't you see this hill?!? Why did you upshift just let me stretch the tach a little!" Again, after a couple seconds of bogging down after the upshift it downshifts and lets me get some more rpms. It's the opposite of a smooth experience. Nobody should have to go 1-2-3-2-3-4-5-6. No car with an AT I've ever driven has had this issue.

And the issue goes away when you press that little ECT button. That's how I know it's not an engine or transmission problem. It has nothing to do with how much HP or torque or the gears or any of that. It's just the ECU is forcing shifts at inappropriate times resulting in unexpected drops in power during normal driving situations. It's not hunting for gears. There aren't too many gears. It just shifts too damn soon even under moderate acceleration. If you give it 3/4 throttle it shouldn't upshift at 2.5krpm. But that's what it does. ECT fixes this for me.

 

Can you expand on the 2LO switch? I love driving the 3.5 with a MT, only issue I have is pulling my 22 ft pontoon boat out of the water. It physically cant do it in 2HI as it just burns up the clutch. I have to switch to 4LO, which is fine until I have to make a turn and the front wheels start skipping on the pavement. 2LO would be perfect for this scenario.

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2lo-plug-play-harness-discussion.592035/
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...-2wd-low-range-for-the-3rd-gen-tacoma.614743/

Works as described.

OPERATION OF 2-LO SWITCH



1. Push the button. (on WITH RED LIGHT)
2. Clutch in. Move selector to 4Hi and wait for it to engage.
3. Clutch in. Move selector to 4Lo and wait for it to engage.
4. You are in 2WD low range.
5. Push the button again. (off)
6. Clutch in. Shift to 4Hi, then to 2Hi and wait for everything to disengage.

 

This is awesome, I had no idea this was out there! Have you installed one of these wiring harnesses on your rig? Any issues with it?

 

Yes installed. No issues at all in use - other than forgetting the order of things! I tend to go to the 4XHiLo dial switch BEFORE the button - OOPS!! If you forget, it just errors out on the display. Power truck off and on and error clears. So just remember PUSH BUTTON FIRST - THEN 4XHiLo dial switch in or out

 

I have a 3.5 Eco 2016 Ford Explorer and of course after driving that & the Honda Goldwing the Taco felt a bit sluggish when I bought it in May. I drive in the mountains in Colorado often and using the ECT and "s" mode keeping the RPM's up it does just fine. The torque converter fluid temp reaches around 215 degrees but cools off quickly as well when cruising downhill. What goes up must come down!!

 

I'm taking a little offense to this entire premise. Look I get it, the tacoma has adequate power for what it's rated for but could use some more when hauling and towing to be honest. Have you ever towed a full sized car with the taco? I have...she needs a little more umph but I agree it wasn't like trying to tow a crown vic with a civic...the taco did just fine.

Now I have to wonder, have you ever driven a vehicle with over 300hp and almost half the weight of our trucks? I have. Ever ridden in a 600hp awd car (which also weights half as much as this truck)? I have. THAT'S why we "feel" it's not enough.

But more realistically is that when I go to pass a car and it takes longer than it did in my big ass ls430 THAT'S why I "feel" it's not enough. And when I step on the gas to get on the interstate and I'm wondering why am I only at 60 and not already at 80 THAT'S why we "feel" it's not enough. And if you think 275hp and 265torque is "enough" or even a lot for such a heavy vehicle...THAT'S why you don't get it. It's not really about hp/torque, it's about power to weight ratio...hp/tq is misleading. 275hp in a vehicle that weighs nearly 4500 pounds vs 275hp in vehicle that weighs 2500 are NOT the same thing. You wouldn't think 275 is sports car territory until you put it into a light weight body...but the taco isn't light.

 

He covered the point that it also matters what you come from to the Tacoma. So ultimately, it’s perception which we all know is reality. I came from a CX-5 to the Tacoma. It was a zippy 4cyl, but when I get on the Tacoma I’m always impressed how fast I get going and how I can break a tire loose if I gun it while doing 30.

You have experienced a crap load of hp so this truck must seem like an absolute dog which is why I always say it’s about your perception.

 

very true...but I base it more on passing on 2 lane highways than say that 600hp ride along...which the owner said afterwards "I didn't even really punch it..." to which I responded 0_o lol. I got a ticket in the ls430 (which is really only 290hp and weighs only like 200 pounds less) because when passing someone on the interstate I went from 55 to 97 in a flash, didn't even realize it till I saw a cop on the side of the road and checked my speed..."oh shit I'm getting a ticket for sure", was pulling over before they even got on the road XD, no way I wasn't getting a ticket. I hit the speed limiter of 135 easily too a couple times and it was SMOOOOOOTH as silk too (only did that 3x's on open empty interstate just to see what it could do)...but it's a car, and a lexus and I don't expect that from a truck at all. I have to pass folks a bit on those 2 lane highways going 55 or 60 in a 70 and it just takes to damn long...could be shift points or gearing though more than anything now that I think about it more.

Either way, you make valid points

 

So why did you buy a vehicle that did not meet your needs? And I agree, the Tacoma does not like towing heavy. I'm near 60. I've gone fast, been the pilot of high hp cars and bikes. In 1982 I had a 70 Camaro pushing 425 hp. I've also owned a lot of vehicles and I've learned that every single one of them is different and to not compare apples and oranges. Comparing your old car to your truck is silly. Compare the Tacoma to a Ranger, Canyon or something similar.
I have a new Tundra 5.7 with 400 hp and 10K towing limit. It does not compare to the Tacoma and I would be silly comparing the two. Even though they are both trucks, they are totally different.

 

Reliability for one, better fuel economy two...buuuuuut it does meet my needs as I stated "did just fine", I tow at most a car on a trailer, aside from that I only tow a small trailer with some wood or my motorcycle so it's perfect, 20mpg and I can tow what I need and haul my tools easier. I just want more power, I'll also be upgrading the brakes in the future as well.

As for comparing it to other cars...maybe read what I typed...the ls has a little more hp and a little less weight yet blasts past cars when I pass...I will get my Tacoma to do that too, and easily...it wasn't built for speed but I will get it there...I knew what I was getting

I worked as a Toyota tech and all we did was recalls at the shop, even the older models we might replace a vacuum valve on occasion, the only real problem car was the pos gmc/toyota crossover corolla, that thing sucks as far as interior goes. Oh and 4runners, they were prone to electrical problems for some reason...not sure about the latest models but the 05's and older. So Toyota is my top pick for reliable cars.

I hate saying this but it's reality...if I was going to tow anything more than just a car on a car trailer I wouldn't even get a Tundra but a turbo diesel dodge (good proven reliability and towing capacity). My Tacoma handles cars on car trailers just fine but it's pretty much at my max comfort level doing so. Tundra's are nice and all but for what you pay you don't get much towing capability, and if you NEED to tow more than a car like a large camper (bigger than the tacoma can handle) the Tundra is maxed out. I mean if you like getting worse mileage just for larger interior hey I can't argue with that and like I said, Tundras are nice and when I towed a car with a 5.7 it was like it wasn't even there...but 5th wheels are over 10k and 10k campers are more like 10-12k, not good, sure a Tundra can do it but it's maxed out...and if you need to tow livestock again, Tundra is maxed out or can't, I wouldn't personally tow at max capacity, you always want wiggle room.

I can enhance my vehicle to do what it already can with more of a safety margin and I will, and when I'm not towing I'll get better fuel economy than any v8...I can even enhance it to put out more hp/tq than any stock v8 if I want...and I will. I bought the Tacoma knowing what I was getting...but I do KNOW what I have

 

I have never seen a post with 251 different likes.

Well done.

 

Thanks. People were just not understanding so I tried to present it from a basic engineering fundamental concept. The challenge when it comes to vehicles is sometimes passion and emotion get mixed up with physics and science. Throw in some myths and passed down misinformation from Dads and "mechanics" and you get a challenge when it comes to explaining things.