3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

On another note, I was browsing some eBay listings and I found that the german made Philips H9 are in an orange style package while the chinese made are in a yellow package, anyone able to confirm this?

 

on the back of the lamp package, it should say where they are made. Mine does. Hopefully the ebay ads show a pic of the backside of the package. The ones I bought on Amazon showed a pic of the package back which clearly showed made in Germany.

 

Wow, simply amazed that the new Morimoto bulbs are the only LED bulbs EVER produced that were not clearly beaten by the GTR Lighting bulbs.

https://youtu.be/IWDjFQuT7Gs?t=1007

 

The GTR bulbs are absolutely terrible. They were covered in post #3 in the thread, they are the bulkiest, least focused and worst design covered in this thread with the exception of BeamTech that was included as somewhat of a joke. Also, TRS owns Morimoto and Headlight Revolution, and Headlight Revolution owns GTR, so not exactly the most unbiased reviews there.

 

morimoto too? damn...

 

Great questions! I need to go back to include the exact measured distance specs.

I cannot say what sort of impact the Morimoto product would have on retrofitting headlights and I'm not familiar with the TUV standards for how Osram got their LED approved for retrofitting in Germany but it would seem that in the US NHSTA may require the LEDs to comply to the legal output intensity of the bulb they are being used for, since the Diode Dynamics SL1 product was recalled specifically for too high of output at 1630 stable lumens when an H11 spec only allowed for 1100 lumens +/-15%. Meaning if that position is maintained (and the US moved to legalize LEDs) in the US, LEDs would need to be reduced in intensity to match the bulb spec. I would not advocate running a replacement LED in a headlight designed for a halogen, as clearly even though the technology is improving, they still cannot compete in performance compared to running the light source the assembly is designed for. Yet, it is a huge industry with plenty of demand and every major automotive lighting manufacture has begun producing these products and there is a push in the effort to legalize them, if they can meet the compliance requirements.

I don't think the average consumer will pay $175 for the Morimotos, that is definitely getting into enthusiast pricing. But I wouldn't call swapping to LEDs aimed just at enthusiasts. I think many people that have a bulb go out on their car would think to buy LEDs as a replacement as a logical choice without understanding how that really works.

Osram makes a TUV compliant replacement LED headlight approved for legal street use in Germany. I suspect though that the actual product is manufactured in China, likely to your later point about trying to reduce cost and many of the LED component manufactures are in Asia.

I do not see wisdom in LEDs designed for a halogen, I personally would not run one. I see consumers wanting something they don't fully understand, or have cosmetic preferences for whiter light, and the companies responding to that demand. Or sometimes companies making consumers believe that LED must be better, because LED, generating the demand. You don't have to look hard to find comments like halogens look old or LED light is cooler, or just the belief that LEDs must be better because the technology is newer and that is what you see many new cars equipped with not understanding that replacement LEDs are not the same as an LED assembly. Of course the other factor here is price, a full LED assembly (to do it right) is very expensive if one is even available, while a replacement LED is far more affordable and appealing to most. The demand is reaching high enough mass that some are lobbying governing bodies for ways to legalize products that can meet compliance standards. But all of that goes back to building an LED that most accurately mimics a halogen bulb, and so far it would appear the latest Morimoto product does a better job of that than any other LED yet.

 

LOL. Yes. Ever notice how TRS is always promoting Morimoto, and Headlight Revolution is always promoting GTR and declaring them as the best? It is because these companies own their own LED brands to promote them, while appearing like an independent 3rd party. TRS also acquired Xenon Depot.

 

This is one reason I prefer buying from Lightwerkz and taking their advice over TRS or HR. I feel like their reviews are more neutral and they won’t push you towards one brand or another. I also prefer Diode Dynamics products over the cheaper Profile, which I believe are a spin-off of Morimoto.

 

Note that TRS produces content that references Lightwerkz as their testing source in videos, and Lightwerkz makes money from selling their products. So... And I’ve pointed out in those videos that Lightwerkz does not use correct testing equipment or produce accurate tests. You might compare the numbers Lightwerkz provides to TRS in videos included in this thread claiming the 2stroke 2.0s (previous version from the new ones) provide a 238% increased output intensity over stock in an H11 used in a 2016 Tacoma low beam projector, with my results of testing the 2stroke 2.0s that show a 3% peak intensity improvement with a significant dip in the beam hotspot due to the bulky design, in an H11 used in a 2016 Tacoma low beam projector. I'll let you decide what to make of that for 'independent' results.

 

Just like everything else, there is a hidden monopoly on a lot of LED products. The illusion of competition only hurts the consumer, and with these "reviews" it only makes things worse. Thanks for clearing things up, CrashBurn.

 

Good to know. So far I haven’t had to buy anything tricky/subjective like lights. I did a RX-350 retrofit and purchased my projectors off someone on eBay, which turned out to be pretty awesome. A lot cheaper than buying from TRS or Lightwerkz.

 

I commented on a few of Lightwerkz posts inquiring about what testing equipment he uses to differentiate between halogen and LED bulbs.

Have yet to hear a response and it’s been over a month

 

In the linked post it is an Extech LT300 standard incandescent meter. It is a nice meter but doesn’t provide accurate readings for LEDs. If you read the linked post I go in depth as to why. The other issue is that the test range must be way to short to get the readings they are presenting, assuming the light sources are all tested from the same position. Which is why I always test replacement LEDs at 42’ (max practical in my location). Diode Dynamics uses a 50’ test. Most aftermarket LED companies are using a 20-25’ test, which is inadequate and based on my testing will lead to inflated results.

 

What do you think about this guy's tests? In this video he tests a high power h7 led vs d2s osram original hid vs h7 halogen. The led is brighter both when is cold and hot (30 minutes of running in a closed box) near the cutoff line. Also, it is way brighter than the hid in the lower parts of the beam but not as bright as near the cut off line, so there is a decrease of brightness towards the bottom but not as visible as the hid or halogen. He uses an aftermarket projector because the h7 projector headlight he usually uses can't fit this led correctly and made false results. Activate the subtitles and then translate to english.

 

Glad I read through this thread. I was always a bit leery of LED lights retro fitted to a halogen assembly. Out of caution I changed my stock halogens to Sylvania SilverStar Ultra H11 halogens and very happy with the improvement over stock lights in color and the throw. Shorter life but that's out of my control.

 

I'm embarrassed I watched that video as long as I did and bothered to read all the translations from Russian.

First, it is an aftermarket projector copy of a Hella lamp. The copy is "designed for both halogens and HIDs". No, there is no such credible product. Optics do not work that way. It is either a halogen assembly, an integrated LED assembly, or an HID assembly. You cannot have a lamp correctly designed for multiple light sources in one. If you do some googling this projector appears to come up in results listed on China AliExpress wholesale for about $16. The authors video links take you to a product page that has the projector listed on a Russian site for 2,600 Rubles a pair, which translates to about $16/each. Needless to say the projector is garbage. You should also be skeptical when a video maker has a special coupon code with their channel name for you to buy the projector they are promoting.

Second they using an ELMO2 meter from a brand I never heard of, however this is again an incandescent meter, meaning it is only accurate to read halogens. There seems to be confusion on how this works, below I have a spectrometer output from halogen, LED and HID. A halogen meter will pick a small amount of points and apply the halogen slope fit to calculate the area under the curve. You can see the halogen slope fit does not match the other light sources, and in the case of HIDs those few measured points could land in the peaks or the valleys of the output providing significantly different results, but again the applied slope to calculate the area under the curve will be wrong. Needless to say the measured results are inaccurate.



Third, you would think if there was such a new absolutely amazing ultra high power replacement LED capable of outperforming a brand name HID capsule he would show it more, as that would be an incredible achievement. Instead it is flashed it in front of the camera so fast it is extremely difficult to see it or even pause the video to see it. However, if you freeze it just right (or check the links in the comments to make it easier) you will see it is a generic cheap LED bulb from AliExpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...057126eb451fa92b57c56f1ca454&tmLog=new_Detail

Given the seeming preference to buy cheap AliExpress products, it wouldn't be surprising if the Osram D2S bulbs are also AliExpress knockoffs, since they are sold on there too and look convincing.

Needless to say a cheap $16 projector with a cheap $20 AliExpress LED is not going to outperform a legitimate HID capsule in a proper housing from a major automotive lighting manufacture. But he is using a garbage projector and promoting it with personalized discount codes, inaccurate testing equipment, AliExpress LEDs and claiming they are superior to major name brand HIDs, if those are even legitimate HIDs. Needless to say the video is a waste of time. It is also worth noting that Osram has +200 D2S HIDs, the standard bulbs are the lowest performance model. Only good thing about the video is I liked how he marked his test wall with test points for easy repeatability, assuming he had a standardized way to aim the light for repeatability.

 

In my opinion that projector is an hid projector that cand take a halogen bulb for use in specific situations such as safety inspections where you would fail if you have modifications to the lightning system.
Also, don't mistake the price on aliexpress to the price in other countries. I have seen 20-25 dollar led bulbs on aliexpress that are sold with around 80 dollars in US. Search for f3 led and you will see what I mean. That F5C led is around 40 dollars on ali and will be resold by various us companies for about 100 dollars.

 

Aftermarket projectors, especially cheap knock offs, are almost always terrible in performance. Yes it will have a crisp cut off, because it is a projector and that is what many look at and claim it must be good, but they lack precision optics.

Yes, many "LED companies" (very loose terms) sell cheap China product from AliExpress or Alibaba at big markups to unsuspecting buyers and unfortunately they make a lot of money in doing so. Just take a look at AlphaRex. The design of that LED unit he is promoting looks terrible. It is too bulky, which will lead to poor focus and the emitters are too large which will also lead to poor focus compounding the problem, both increase foreground light and reduce distance light as well as peak output intensity. And when used in a projector, size and focus matters most, meaning bulky out of focus designs perform the worst. The claim that a bulky out of focus $20 AliExpress replacement LED outproduces a German 3,200 lumen OEM grade HID capsule in peak intensity is ridiculous. There are so many wrongs/unknowns in the video it is hard to say what part of the test is causing the bad results if not all combined. The projector is bad, and odd to promote such a product with personal discount codes. Maybe he is trying to up sell those as an alternative to people running HID projectors, showing how LED could be better. Hmm. Unsure. The way those personalized discount codes work is you typically get kickbacks from the sales that use the code. The measurement tool is wrong, and won't provide accurate results, so all the measured data is inaccurate with the exception of the halogens. The test range looks too short, which conceals focus performance issues leading to artificial high values for LED. The list goes on.

 

viruszzz84 = guy on the youtube video?

nah, probably not.

ignore me

 

Yeah, I don't see any evidence of that. Looking at that youtube channel, it is heavily dominated by AliExpress products, not exactly something you'd turn to as a reputable source.

I've attracted plenty of interesting followers, like Vanagon triple bulb forced air cooled headlight guy.