Ooof.. another LBJ bites the dust

If they are smart they go Tons and 40's

 

Here's the thread

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/check-your-ball-joints.374853/page-2#post-10284167

I think he's right about longevity vs price being the bottom line. For some, it's easier said than done to preach OEM or nothing when you're on a budget and I can respect that.

 

Not true, go back and read the edit.

 

My eyes really just darted to what I remembered seeing before, will edit my post

 

OEM is Somic Ishikawa Inc. not Sankei

 

Just keep an eye on the bolts and what I mention below.

See above.


I have only hinted at what I feel is the biggest drawback the 555 joints in the past. Even posted a question related to it several years ago to see if anyone could figure it out. I guess it's time.
Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I have always maintained that 555's are a viable alternative to Toyota given proper "situational awareness".

Here goes. It's next to impossible to determine wear on the 555's. The "half ball" is essentially preloaded or pressed against the seat. As things wear the ball is continuously pressed against the seat, taking up any play. You could check for play till the cows come home and still get to the point of "immanent failure" without knowing it.

As far as OE joints developing play at super low miles and replacing them "when you can see any play". I never said that, I said "it's time to start shopping for replacements".
The Toyota spec of .020" play is conservative and nowhere close to imminent failure.

It's important to note the .020" Toyota spec for OE joints is with an "upward force" of 66lbs. Essentially they are looking for "free play". With an 18 inch prybar and a heavy hand I can "see movement" in a new Toyota joint. The weight of the tire, if still mounted, needs to be kept in mind along with the torsional resistance of OE type rubber upper control arm bushings.
I an not advocating using some spring scale, dial indicator or anything like it, just to be aware. Again its the free play to be observed. Of course this needs to be done with the wheel off the ground and the joint not in tension. I like to go so far as to check with the very end of the lower arm supported with a jack as close as possible to ride height but I've been called a bit eccentric, at least once maybe twice.

The 555 ball is held against the seat by a compressed rubber "doughnut", represented by the blue below.
If any play is found in one of these fellows it means there's significant wear or the rubber has deteriorated.



Lastly, recently there has been talk about OE bolts.
They are a Toyota proprietary grade 11T, says so right on the bolt head stamp. They are generally equivalent to "high strength" metric grade 10.9. The 59 lbs torque spec is 13lbs below max.
Not all Toyota fasteners follow this grade scale.

Head stamp.


11T head stamp for dummies. Happens to be a bumper bolt.


Toyota fastener identification and stuff.



Phew, with that it's lunch.

 

That is fantastic knowledge and something I was completely unaware of with the 555s! Again your attention to detail is impeccable and you're truly a gift to this forum


Thanks for being patient with us pleebs!

 

Great info as always, thank you

 

Just replaced upper and lower ball joints with oem. 275k on the original upper ball joints and around 100k on the lowers. And sheeeeeet thats my local costco

 

I had LBJs from NAPA (I believe 555 but don't remember) fail with less than 5k miles. To be fair the truck is not my DD and a decent portion of the miles were in a field or on a trail but I still was not pleased. Replaced them with OEM and haven't had any more issues. I do keep spares though.

 

I honestly wasn't aware of the difference in the ball shape, so that's new info for me. However, if I'm being honest, the Toyota design is pretty much shit to begin with, so "different" doesn't necessarily equate to "bad" to me.

That said, I'd be interested to see if there is a correlation between failed ball joints, and oem vs. non-oem. Then correlate that to mileage, and maintenance. Would also be intersting to see how many of these failures are from the bolts, rather than the ball itself. I know I've seen several of those.

We all have our anecdotes, but the plural of anecdote is not data. There are lots of variables that go into a failure.

 

It is a known fact that 1st gens had a badly designed lower ball joint. Toyota did fix the lower ball joint issues on the 2nd gen, but I wonder how aftermarket or toyota never thought about making a replacement part with an improved design that makes them less prone to failure instead of keep selling the same badly designed part that is going to fail anyway. Maybe it's easier said than done or maybe it's a way to keep the money flowing in, who knows...

But that reminds me of a few years ago where I saw an old post on here (well, pretty sure it was) where the guy was machining lower ball joints and improving them so they were less prone to failure. ANyone remembers this? It was interesting, but I cannot find it for now...

 

There is someone making uniball lower ball joints for 1st gens...you send him your old OEM ones and he converts then into a uniball. There's some debate over whether it's an improvement or not. If I find his website I'll post it

 

Not bad. I can relate. My hand-stitched Italian boots bought in 2011 are still getting me up ice sheets and crags and looking sexy AF at the mall. With a little shoe goo in strategic points for good measure. Sometimes you DO get what you pay for. Even when you’re getting a fast LBJ in some parking lot.

 

Here's the TW thread about them

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/uniball-stock-replacement-lower-ball-joints.587804/

 

Definitely easier said than done.

TL;DR Fundamental problem is 1st gen LBJ are held in tension vs. compression so there is no easy way to fix it without complete redesign. Hence 2nd gen (not really a fix tho)


EDIT there was more than just this reason for 2nd gen, just keeping it TL;DR cause I ramble

 

really the 'aftermarket' answer to this problem is to find out what has to be modified to bolt the upper control arm, lower control arm, and upright/knuckle of a 2nd gen to the frame of a 1st gen. You fast get into potential problems with suspesion geometry and drive shaft/wheel bearing/hub compatibility. The ball joint placement look close on the front, maybe even get away with keeping the 1st gen upper. Someone with 1st gen and 2nd gen parts trucks and too much time on their hands needs to get on this.

 

I remember that thread, and aside from devolving into a discussion about bumpsteer, there really wasn't a lot of helpful info that came from the uniball conversion. No info about the company was ever shared.

It could be a game changer if it were more than just some guy on instagram showing off his welds, or someone claiming he’s “getting the manufacturig up and running” or maybe wants to do a group buy if there is enough interest...

 

Here's an expensive fix