This is going to be expensive

@crashnburn80 @memario1214

I AM FOGETTING THE DRIVING LIGHTS AS AUX LOW BEAMS PERMANENTLY, CASE CLOSED. But that still leaves thining about swapping the 3s out for 5s, or adding the BD bars.

Crash I don't want to muck up your SAE threads even though we are talking about some of the same lights but definitely not in an SAE configuration. But if you think this should go there that'd be OK with me.

1st, thanks to all the help I've received here but 2nd, FU for making me realize my factory OEM f150 LED lighting sucks. I was so happy in blissville thinking my low beams and fogs together were great

This picture has been posted before but I can literally drive 80mph (I mean the posted speed limit) with just the two sets of DD Maxes on with complete calm with the vision provided...


but being here has made me greedy, I want even better. The DD max driving are great, but only as long as the air is clear. With snow, fog or rain that isn't thick enough to causes issues running with the high beams on definitely cause lots of backsplatter with the maxes on. Fortunately even though they are activated by the high beams I can still switch them on or off separately. Also for those times I can't run the brights I'd still like more side and distance lighting on low. Before coming here and the Daniel Stern articles I thought running the fogs 100% of the time was the answer. There used to be auxiliary low beams but my searching doesn't turn anything up. Soooo, I got thinking. Looking at this DD image


and this one knowing my driving lights are supposed to have a 18 x 8 pattern....


which means the vertical spread is almost the same as the SAE fogs is there any reason (other than not really legal) that I couldn't mount them low either by the fogs with the KDF dual mount, or in the intercooler opening on the standard mounts with them aimed at the same height as the fogs and maybe toed in so they cross and give me a wider angle??


I'm thinking (actually hoping) that with the sharp defined cutoff of the S3 SAE driving lens it they shouldn't be blinding oncoming traffic. I could either move the max driving currently on the SDHQ mounts to one of the spots or maybe get selective yellow pro driving and put the clear spare driving lens set I have on it and have a halogen color looking set. Is there any reason this shouldn't work?

Then if that works I'd like to improve the already great hi beam/ SS3 driving combo. If I moved the maxes down low I need something else for the SDHQ mounts. IF we look at the specs of the DD SS5 pro yellow spots they have a 20degree spread which is actually 2 degrees wider than the max driving and 227000cd compared to the already phenomenal 98000cd of the max driving I have sitting there. Am I wrong thinking I can have a color that will cut through some glare, just as wide a pattern and over twice the candela. Or in a really strange twist the sports have 360000cd but a slightly narrower spread of 15 degrees. The only downside I see to the swap on the A pillar is the vertical I have now is 8 degrees and the wider vertical on the SS5 even with spot lenses may cause too much glare on the hood?

Please, being serious, tell me where I'm freaking nuts in my thinking here? Have to figure this out quick because the sale price for the DDs with Colton ends the 5th.

 

There is also the BD dual 10" S8 kit that I originally got but returned It goes in the grill opening at a level splitting the highs and low beams. but I'm not sure there output is worth the trouble of removing half the front end. There's no way with their beam patterns that I could run them with the lows but they would get the hi beams scatter out of my line of sight. Mounts like they belong there in the grill opening.


This is only 1 of the lights but not sure they're worth the effort compared to the DDs. But they actually don't have to be an instead of, can be added to.

 

And of course with the added rear fog on it's way, and 2 or 3 more sets of lights I will need a switch pros or something similar to make everything neat and tidy. Do you sell those too Colton?

 

Never ran DD but recently ordered SAE figs I’m waiting on for regular driving and actual fog use. The SAEs have additional deal on the lights to ensure the cut off and brightness. I will still run my current BD squadrons next to the. But the fogs will be for use in daily driving as needed. Recently did the same when I had a chance for a good deal. you could always run both line I plan to.

 

Driving lights should absolutely NEVER be run as a low beam or fog supplement. They are strictly a high beam pattern. While vertical pattern degrees may look similar on paper or outline pattern pics may appear to have a general cut off, the driving lights do not have actual cut offs. The pattern is far more circular with far illegal levels of light spill/glare. It is not possible to safely run these products as a low beam or fog. Diode Dynamics has expressly confronted a specific member wishing to do just that, condemning the practice as illegal and unsafe. Driving lights are a high beam pattern to be used ONLY as a high beam. Aiming them down will not resolve the excessive light spill issues since they do not have actual cut offs while also making them ineffective as a forward lighting product. If you want supplemental fogs, add another set of fogs which have actual cut offs.

 

We’ll said in better words then me that’s what I am going to do.

 

I don't actually want supplemental fogs, I want supplemental low beams. I will forget the driving light idea for low beam help permanently.

 

Supplemental low beams are a very difficult pattern to find as an aux lighting product. Snow plow lights are one source, JW Speaker makes some. But not something very conducive to mounting discreetly on most vehicles. This is where you start looking at headlight upgrades. The F150 has some very poor OEM LED headlights. Morimoto assemblies are one option, though quality isn't great and they lack uplight of a compliant headlight. Poor headlights are not an easy problem on modern vehicles.

 

I was blissfully unaware how bad they really are, only thing I like about my wife's 2019 CRV better than my truck. Her LED headlights throw much better light than the f150 LEDs. I don't want to go the aftermarket headlight route at least as long as the warranty is active, plus they scream, well they just scream something.

So what are your thoughts to swaping the 3s for 5s on the a pillars?

 

Can be a rude awakening once you start adding quality lighting. Scroll down on the IIHS 2020 F150 headlight report, both halogen and LED headlights are given the worst score possible.
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/ford/f-150-extended-cab-pickup/2020

By comparison the Tacoma LED headlights get the highest score possible. I feel your pain thought, the OEM LED headlights in my Gladiator don't hold a candle to what I had in my 2nd Gen.

 

You linked that to me when I first got here and I cried over it then, don't want to rip the scab off again

I also remember you saying long ago (it seems) that the DD Pro fogs might be the way to go for a little extra help with the low beams. I could add those to the max yellows. As much as I still dislike what they look like in the bumper I absolutely am not giving them up. Well until you tell us we need something better.

 

I'm going to have go back and look at your results for the Pro fogs in white compared to the yellow with clear lense results.

 

Which ones were you running in the 2nd gen? I have heard the 3rd gen LEDs are really nice. I have debated going from my HID retro (only mini H1 but with Philips bulbs) to an LED setup but haven't really heard of ones that are WOW factor or just missed the memo.

 

I went with pro yellow fog specifically for the looser vertical cutoff and have another set of yellows with clear driving lens on order for aux high beam. The Max with driving lens is not SAE compliant.

 

Searching for threads about this on candlepowerforums there's a couple repetitive mentions for auxiliary low beams, that are not specifically headlamps. One is the Bosch Compact 100 fog light, which is purported to have a central hotspot, making it semi-suitable as an auxiliary low beam when aimed for 2" drop, rather than the typical 4" at 25'. The discontinued Hella XL fogs were another option discussed, for the same hotspot reason. Sylvania offered a lamp assembly called the Xenarc X1010 meant to be used as a supplemental low beam, but it, also, appears discontinued. It was HID, as opposed to the halogen of the Bosch or Hella offerings. Other threads there favor finding a way to mount an actual lowbeam lamp assembly, some variation of a Hella 90mm, or more modern offerings from JW Speaker (their 90mm offering, or a standard size 5.75/7" round or 4x6" rectangular lamp).

Cibie offered an auxiliary lowbeam wayyyy back in the day called the "booster beam." I believe HillDweller on CPF posted a beam image at one point. The beam hotspot was weirdly triangular, with a very hard cutoff to the left hand side, as it was meant to be used with the lowbeams to increase seeing distance at highway speeds in spread-out traffic, where highbeams would cause too much glare but lows were insufficient for safety.

If you want to stick with LED, apparently Hellas 90mm Reflector based lowbeam is quite good. Rallylights has a listing for one for $99.99 but it may be a placeholder pricetag, as that would be significantly cheaper than any of the other 90mm offerings, especially the LED models.

I would hesitate to say that a Baja bar would be any more suitable than a DD pod lamp. The open reflector cups would have even less control of outward glare/dazzle from the high intensity LED chips.

As far as mounting goes, I know you're trying to keep a clean/stock-ish appearance. But any of these options would be best mounted a high up and close to the existing headlamps as possible to maximize their usefulness, which means some type of mount to the radiator support or crashbar of the bumper might be needed.

 

I was actually looking at the CPforum after I said I would drop my low beam driving light idea.

 

I was thinking of low profile light bar type headlights, like this:
https://www.jwspeaker.com/products/model-9900-lp-led-snow-plow-lights/

They could maybe install in the grill where the Baja bars went. They also have a low beam and high beam function. Performance won’t likely be as good as a larger headlamp assembly, but these are be more compact for discrete mounting.

In my 2nd Gen I ran this with the voltage booster:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-ultimate-headlight-upgrade-h4-not-led-or-hid.398066/

For 2nd Gen there are the Morimoto LED assemblies, though I wouldn’t advocate ditching a retro for them:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-morimoto-xb-hybrid-12-15-led-headlight-review.735867/

You might find this RX350 retro post interesting in post #5506.

 

Nice I wish I had D2S retros. Currently running Mini H1's Got a deal on them. But I did upgrade to better Phillips bulbs from the cheap Morimoto. That was well worth it.

 

Just saw these....also available in 5.75" round, 7" round, 4x6 and 5x7. I haven't seen any output shots of the yellow ones, but pretty cool that they are doing that. Mounting could be tricky though, but I believe there are somewhat universal brackets available. I'm half tempted to get a pair of the 5.75" to put into my 01 outback foglight location, but it is my beater car and it's hard to justify it when the car was $700. lol

https://lightwerkz.net/collections/7-inch-round



Theres also these little guys that are made for buses and motor homes but could easily be adapted for use in other areas.


As for the headlights, I think your best option is probably a retrofit. But you do run into the issue of potential for icing over, especially if you use LED projectors. If you choose to go this route, check out Headlight Junkies for some ideas and I'm sure there are some F150 guys that build them too. I don't know if a 3" projector will fit in those headlights? If it does fit then a 3" projector would be ideal. Get a D2S based projector as those are the bulbs used in OEM headlights so there are high quality bulbs available. H1 based projectors are usually better than the OEM halogen headlight (depending on car and bulbs used) but bulb quality is questionable sometimes. No need to go with high wattage ballasts either, they cause too many issues. Just stick with a 35w ballast, go to the salvage yard and look for early 2000's Audi A4 or A6 and snag those ballasts. They are Hella Gen 3 ballasts which are the cream of the crop. Fast start (less than 5 sec to mostly stabilized), insanely reliable and completely water proof.

There are some F150 guys that do a quad retrofit which is an insane amount of light and would mean quad high beams!!! Absolutely nuts!! The projector that is held highest in regard is the Lexus RX350 with a clear lens swap. But the Morimoto D2S 5.0 would be a great choice since it can be shaft mounted for much easier installation if your going DIY. If your up for a potentially time consuming and frustrating retrofit, then the RX350 or G5-BRT are amazing options.

This is my Tacoma with 1 pair of RX350's, clear lens swap, Osram Nightbreaker Laser bulbs (roughly 4200K so its great for poor weather) and Hella ballasts. The wall is about 100ft away from the nose of the truck and this was taken with my iPhone X that I tried to play with settings to get the most accurate representation of output, so take it with a grain of salt. They are great headlights! But I have considered breaking out my unmodified OEM headlights and trying out Crash's Ultimate H4 upgrade for my own curiosity.

 

I know this has nothing to do with your F150 or Tacoma's. But I thought this was really cool! Granted the output is nowhere near even the SS3 Sport, but considering how compact it is makes it pretty impressive. It is a cool look into what DD may do in the future! Sorry if this is old news, but I just saw it for the first time.

https://www.diodedynamics.com/elite-series-combination-fog-lamp-for-2018-2021-ford-mustang-pair.html