Oil change disaster advice needed

It snows in Maryland, Virginia and North Carolina. All three states south of Delaware.

 

This could be true ... and for you I sincerely hope that it is. But I think your next move is to tell them you don't think this is a comprehensive review. At this point, you are requesting the truck be sent to a Toyota Certified Mechanic to conduct a thorough test -- and the cost of that should be covered by the dealer. If it comes back from that second opinion okay then ask for the lifetime engine warranty to be safe.

 

Agreed....the original poster has been made whole? Issue resolved?

 

The work was done at the dealership... but the part that failed was an approved and authorized Toyota component installed by an approved and authorized Toyota dealership according to Toyota recommendations.

 

Me too.

 

they said its fine because no lights are on the dash.

 

Posts concern the 21. I had an 18 prior to my 21. The oil issue pertains to the 21.

 

Firstly, its not my vehicle, and I'm not the OP, so I've not once claimed that.
Secondly, I'm just here for discussion; I'm okay with being wrong and eating my words. If fine print says its technically a warranty issue, cool; that doesn't change the fact that the engine ran with no oil, to the point of knocking, and they claim it to have no damage because they refilled it with oil, with no actual inspection for damage.
Thirdly, eat a snickers
Fourthly, just for fun and conspiracy, if they had an opportunity to make money off of the situation, why wouldn't they, unless it pointed to some sort of admission of fault?

 

My worthless opinion once again...
I'd consult an attorney (first visit should be free) and let he/her tell me my legal options, and then make a decision on how/if I wanted to move forward. Then I'd stop posting on TW until a solution has been resolved.
Unless you're comfortable with the information the dealership has given you; in which case, it's a done deal.
Best of luck to you.

I'm sure we all want the best outcome for you, but we're really just a bunch of internet dumbasses.

 

So the OEM plastic housing unit may have been over-torqued, causing the cut in the unit? Maybe it was a slow leak that got bigger as the heat affected it.

Can they provide photos?

I'd also ask for a second opinion from another Toyota dealership.

 

How did they check for metal? I'd be asking for an independent oil analysis (like from Blackstone) that shows no abnormalities in the oil. If that comes back good, I'd personally feel fairly confident that there was no MAJOR damage. But, I'd still expect an extended warranty. Just looking at the oil and saying it looks fine is just not enough.

Depending on how long you drove it while it was oil-starved, it might be fine.

 

The only way to inspect the engine is to remove parts....pull the oil pan, disconnect main bearings, rod bearings, inspect and measure, pull valve covers, inspect cams, etc, etc. I really wouldn't want that to happen to my new truck. So....two options....

1) Consider the engine unharmed but demand and receive an engine warranty along with an acknowledgement from the dealer that they caused a "lack of oil" incident, so that any future engine problems are by default the result of this and thus will be covered.

2) Or....tell the dealer that you want a new truck. The deal would be full trade-in value along with the new truck at dealer cost.

You...not the dealer....needs to decided what you prefer.

I do NOT recommend an engine inspection since that requires a true tear-down to determine damage. It only takes one trashed bearing to cause a major future issue, and that could be tough to find without a detailed tear-down.

Make it easy on yourself...at least demand the dealer put in writing that their work resulted in a "lack of oil" incident and that any engine problems will be due to this incident and thus covered. That in turn will push them toward option 2, which is a new vehicle. If I was the dealer that's the direction I would want to go...it gets rid of the problem and costs almost nothing. Your trade now gets sold to someone else, and any engine problems (if any) gets covered by Toyota under warranty, not the dealer. In other words, the dealer should be motivated toward option 2 as long as you demand option 1 as a minimum.

 

if there's "no" damage i'm sure they wouldn't mind buying it back...lol

 

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", especially when one doesn't bother to look for the evidence very closely.

I've spent decades in the aerospace industry (granted, a bit different from automotive), and the logic is always that if something anomalous happens, you have to prove that no damage occurred. Of particular importance for a device that is supposed to last for millions of revolutions (your engine) is to prove that no damage occurred that would affect the life expectancy of the device. We would typically require a life test to be conducted of a similarly damaged device, for twice the number of expected cycles. So if Toyota can prove to you that you can run an engine with no oil for 5-10 minutes, and then still be good for 200K-300K miles, then you can take their word for it. Otherwise, they have no idea what the incipient damage may be.

 

Their response is the equivalent of a doctor telling you that the cough you are complaining about is nothing, don't worry about it.

Oil pressure starvation damages plain bearing surfaces by smearing the soft metal surfaces. Plain bearing engines like your Tacoma need significant (30-50 PSI) to provide the thin shear film between the bearing surface and the crankshaft journal. That thin oil film is the actual bearing, no matter how many "experts" on here claim otherwise.

Plain bearings damaged by momentary oil starvation do not fail immediately. If damaged (highly likely) the bearing surface(s) have been galled, maybe the journals have been as well. There will be very little chance of freeborn metal particulate in the oil...now. But it will over time shed small pieces as the rotating (formerly glass smooth) surfaces polish away the displaced bearing alloy. The damaged surface will also be unable to properly maintain the thin shear film, it will excape past the damaged surface. The damage will continue until it is severe enough that it will become apparent something is wrong. How long that takes is the unknown. Unless the main caps and rod end caps were removed and each bearing removed inspected (journals too) they don't know anything, they're guessing.

A roller bearing engine is rare in automobiles and multi cylinder vehicles in general, but very common in single cylinder high performance engines like Moto-X bikes, high HP go carts, etc. The Suzuki GS1100 engines from the 80's is an exception, it had a roller bearing crankshaft and rods. This required the crankshaft to be made in multiple pieces. The rods and bearings would have the journals fit is place then press the journals to the crankshaft counter weights and end journals to make the assembly. Suzuki's specification for oils pressure was 2.5 psi - 7 psi. Roller bearing just need to be wet with oil.

TLDR: Tell the dealer since the engine is in perfect condition, he won't have a problem selling for you at top dollar, then applying the proceeds towards your new Tacoma. I'll drive the loaner until you sell mine. Thanks.

 

1. This is the dealer's fault. The tech didn't ensure the O-ring was seated in the correct groove on install. The tech also didn't check the filter housing for leaks after.
2. What did the dealer offer as compensation? Has an extended powertrain warranty been agreed to? Remind them of item 1. above and remind them an extended warranty costs them nothing up front.
3. All the people demanding engine teardowns, new truck, etc. aren't being realistic in a shop environment. Remember the truck is yours until you sell it, then it's someone else's problem. Drive it until the factory powertrain warranty or the negotiated extended warranty expires, whichever is longer, then unload the truck at market value.

 

Make it easy on yourself...at least demand the dealer put in writing that their work resulted in a "lack of oil" incident and that any engine problems will be due to this incident and thus covered. That in turn will push them toward option 2, which is a new vehicle. If I was the dealer that's the direction I would want to go...it gets rid of the problem and costs almost nothing. Your trade now gets sold to someone else, and any engine problems (if any) gets covered by Toyota under warranty, not the dealer. In other words, the dealer should be motivated toward option 2 as long as you demand option 1 as a minimum.

 

A lot of comments about getting the extended warranty, but as has been alluded to in a couple posts, that brings its own set of challenges -

If it's a Toyota warranty and the engine fails (or just starts to consume more oil - I've got over 100K on my engine and it doesn't consume any
noticeable oil, but I think Toyota will say 1 quart in 5,000 miles is "normal"), they still may go back and say it's the dealer's problem, or scrutinize
all the maintenance records for some reason to deny.

If it's a dealer warranty, they still have to be in business when the problem comes up, as well as not trying to get out of it based on maintenance
records, etc.

You could be stuck having to get all your future service performed by that dealership exactly at the scheduled times in order to feel confident that
they won't find a way to back out.

 

Do NOT request an inspection of the engine that isn't a tear down, that right there is as close to OJ trying the glove on as it gets. It takes them a week to drain and fill the oil without finding metal, and people recommend boroscoping an engine when you wouldn't even see wear to bearing surfaces? Give your heads a shake.

 

I would not sleep at night. Sell it to Carvana and get a different one.