Mid suspension upgrade help!

Hey all! I'm sorry if the answers to any of these are buried among the dozens of 5100/AAL threads. I read through tons while researching what I wanted and purchasing, but now that I've started install I'm on a bit of a crunch and come up against a few things that I'm pretty unsure of and questioning my decisions - someone please talk me down!

Basically, I'm trying to lift/level my truck and adding 265/70r17's on FJ Steelies. It's a 2013 ACLB 4x4 4.0 6MT with the 4 leaf (3+ overload) pack. I haul a slide-in-camper from time to time with an added dirtbike on a mototote on occasion as well. Because of this, I'm concerned not only about lift/level, but also load capacity and a mix of loaded + unladen ride quality. I don't do any hardcore wheeling, especially with the camper on board, just the occasional desert fireroad or mild trail to a campsite. With all that in mind, I landed on the Bilstein 5100's front and rear with the Icon progressive AAL with overload left in, with plans to add the firestone ride-rite airbags in the near future to assist.

I pulled the rear shocks and started taking apart the first leaf to install the AAL when I ran into my first problem(s) - the front alignment bracket on the overload is directly in line with the pack bracket on the Icon AAL. I've never read about anyone else having this issue, and many mention retaining the overload with the AAL. Can anyone confirm that this is the case, and what the solution is? The only thing I can think of would be to cut the bracket off of the Overload, but then I'd be concerned about the overload not staying aligned. That bracket also has the brake line bracket mount on it, so I'd have to relocate that. I'm thinking it shouldn't be a problem to tap the AAL pack clamp, but wondering if this is also normal.

With all this in mind, I started getting in my own head and questioning/researching more and working myself up about the AAL in general. I'm now concerned that adding the AAL and keeping the Overload will jack the rear up so high that in order to level the front I'll need to max out the 5100's. I was hoping not to do this, as I know that there are driveline concerns with front CV/diff, alignment concerns with available caster adjustment, along with ride quality and stress concerns with preloading the springs so much. I'm now wondering if the AAL is even a good idea. I'm not necessarily looking to jack up the truck too high, as I'm pretty sure I don't need anything in the rear to fit 265/70's (though correct me if I'm wrong), but I figured adding dynamic load support would be a good idea considering the fact that I will be hauling so much weight on occasion.

That brings me to my next question - am I going too far installing the AAL for load support if I already plan on adding the ride-rite bags? Should I just ditch that plan altogether and depend on the bags for load support, allowing me to keep the ride a bit lower (keeping in mind tire size) and not have to max out the bilstein height up front? I read through the whole four-wheel-camper (mine's a Northstar but same idea) thread on here and there wasn't a ton of help in selecting upgrades to support the weight - seemed most of the discussion on that thread also had more intense offroad capability in mind, and/or folks who ran the camper fulltime, and the solution there was usually heavier duty leaf packs which I fear when unladen will jack up the rear way too high and/or give way too harsh a ride. That's how I landed on the progressive AAL with the promise that it gives a pretty decent ride when unladen and the hope that it will help support the weight when it's there.

Should I keep going that route, or just ditch it and get the firestones to go with the 5100s out back and let that carry the load? I already cut off one of the rear pack brackets on the factory spring to fit the AAL, so I'll have to figure that out if I don't install the AAL in it's place, but I'm pretty sure there are some u-bolt type replacements I can grab at a parts store if necessary.

I know this got long winded, but here's a TLR with what I'd love help with:

- Would 265/70/17's on FJ Steelies fit on a leveled (not lifted in rear) truck without issue?
- Is the Icon add-a-leaf with the overload in place a good idea to help with load support?
- What do I do to run the AAL with the factory overload - cut the overload alignment bracket?
- If I went with the AAL+overload, would it require me to max out my 5100's in the front to keep level?
- If I had to do that, what if any problems would maxing out the 5100's out front of a 4x4 cause and how can they be overcome?

I know these questions are all over the place and relate to a very specific use case, and that answers may exist already spread throughout this page, but I appreciate any insight anyone can offer on this specific scenario. Thanks all!

-Matt

 

265 70 17 would fit no issues completely stock, it's only a 31" tire.

I had 255 80 17 on FJ steelies on my rig for a while which are taller and only slightly more narrow on stock suspension.

Add a leafs reduce droop and aren't great for weight get a full leaf pack replacement, Deaver if you can swing it. Avoid All Pro leafs.


No change necessary for and add a leaf, disassemble the pack, put the leaf between the overload and rest of the leaf pack and reinstall with the longer the center bolt but again had an AAL too and they suck for weight and will definitely sag, they don't do the ride any favors either.

The rear should be 1-2" higher than the front, if you get it fully level any weight, load, or towing will make it nose high and that's a bad thing.

"Maxing out" the 5100's will ride like dog shit.

It's better to get OME 887 coil or similar and run the 5100 collar on the bottom, this will give you the best ride and travel with 5100's.

If you lift too high you can bind your CV's and accelerate their wear, especially the boots and break them.

21" from top of the coil bucket to the middle of the lower control arm shock bolt is max "safe" distance/lift.

 

Thanks for all this! You've answered a lot of my questions and given me my direction for now, I think.

I'm having trouble seeing how it's possible to slide the AAL in between the Overload and leaf pack as the AAL bracket fouls on the overload bracket. I've attached a couple photos for reference. My research shows that the longer side of the AAL faces rear, which is pictured, but even if I flip the AAL to longer side front, it just fouls on the rear brackets instead of the front.

With all you've mentioned, I'm leaning towards leaving the AAL out for now and seeing how the ride rites help with load support. If the AAL doesn't help support the weight or improve the laden ride, and the tires will fit without issue in lieu of it, I don't see a ton of benefit.

I'd love to go the full leaf pack route if it could benefit my use case, but I have concerns that all the HD full pack options will give me too much lift and a shit ride when unladen. I know custom packs are an option, too, but I feel like there's always got to be an inherent tradeoff between load support and unladen ride quality with any of them, and since I'll be without the load more often than not, I'm afraid to invest so much and end up with a poor ride most of the time. I'll have to do more research before considering that route further.

 

That's an unusual add a leaf, if you've already got it might as well try it as a hold over but refer to the instructions for that, it may tell you to run without the overload or it may tell you to trim the overload ears off.

I'd probably gring of the ears and keep the overload.


Most HD packs you can remove a leaf from to make it a MD leaf pack or to soften the ride.

My truck is rather heavy and I actually added a leaf from a OEM 3rd gen pack to my HD Dakar pack.

Dakar are okay but not great, better than All-Pro IMHO.

 

Yeah I believe this kit calls for the overload to be removed, but since I'll be loading it down heavy from time to time I'd rather keep the overload. I remember reading about people who have done so with this Icon progressive AAL (it was part of my qualifier when buying it), but none of them mention having the trouble I'm having with the brackets so I'm a bit bummed about that. I've found a thread here that shows the overload with the bracket removed and briefly discusses doing so. That feels like the route I'd have to take as a solution to make the AAL work with the overload, but I'm still at a loss as to whether or not I even want to do it now, as I still have those same concerns about it jacking the rear up too high to keep a reasonable setting up front. Extra lift isn't as much of a need or desire here if the tires will clear without issue, so with no load benefits to the AAL, it's starting to feel like more downside than upside. Still trying to decide if it's worth trying but I'm currently leaning towards seeing how the rest of the setup does without it due to those concerns.

 

If I were to try going through with the AAL+overload route, another POSSIBLE option I see, would be to "open up" the retainer on the overload, making it more V shaped, with the goal to open it up enough that the bracket from the AAL can sit inside of it. That would hopefully help keep the overload in place and retain the mounting point for the brake line. I would have to see if it'd get in the way of anything, though.

 

I'd probably just grind the rivet that hold the bracket on off, you can always weld it back on later.

The clips are pretty stout IIRC, I dunno if you'd be able to bend it enough without breaking it, or be able to bend them enough to be out of the way.

You may need longer center bolts if the pack didn't come with any and/or it's ment to run without the thick overload.

 

That's the wrong placement.

The leaf above the AAL will be longer than and the leaf below will be shorter.

Look at the stack: main longest and each under gets shorter.

When I did my single AAL it went under the first or second leaf, and yes it will help with weight capacity and didn't make empty seem harsh.

 

I'm confused. My 3-leaf progressive AAL doesn't go in between the stock pack and the overload, then? Where does it go? In the photos it's shown just with the overload attached to the bottom, with the idea being that that whole stack goes under the longer, stock leaf pack. Should it be ordered differently?

 

RTFM

 

Read the Tech Notes and Installation Point #5
https://images.iconfigurators.app/pdf/Icon_Dynamics/I51100_REVD.pdf

I think it addresses the problem that you're having.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/installing-icon-aal-on-the-stock-4-leaf-pack.315110/

Hope this helps.

 

Manual only covers removing overload completely. Was hoping to hear from any of the many who have successfully installed while retaining overload.

 

Thank you for this! Sadly, point five in those instructions refers to the spring clip on the factory leaf pack. I'm having trouble with the guide on the overload, which these instructions preclude. That other thread is the one I linked in post 5 and the best reference I've found so far. Definitely makes me feel better about going that route if I decide to keep the AAL in place. Thanks!

 

Update! Found another good example of my issue HERE. This looks to be the route I'll go if I decide to go with the AAL after all. For now, I think based on Key-rei's answers, it's not worth adding unless I find that the clearance is too tight on the slightly larger tires with any sort of load. I threw the 5100's on the rear and am bolting the stock pack back in and figuring out a replacement for the clamp I cut off the factory leaf pack. I'll install the 5100's at 1.75 up front for now and see how that works with the wheels and tires, and plan to order the ride-rites to add asap to help when I haul the camper/bike