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Space and Science BS Thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Monster Coma, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. Aug 17, 2022 at 1:33 AM
    #9001
    bagleboy

    bagleboy Well-Known Member

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    Big difference between what he’s accomplished under fixed contracts and what others have done and continue to do under cost plus funding. In less than 2 decades his company has produced rockets that deliver more payload to orbit than all others worldwide combined, sticks the landings of the reusable boosters, and beat Boeing’s Starliner by years with the crew dragon. If it were as easy as borrowing a few engines then there wouldn’t be so many launch failures by both his and other startups when prototyping. Yes, newer rocket engines benefit from ideas learned in the past, it’s called progress. Werner von Braun espoused reusability but Spacex is making it actually happen. Had Boeing been given the plans for a canceled unfinished rocket motor how would they have done given their painfully slow progress with functional motors?
     
  2. Aug 17, 2022 at 2:57 AM
    #9002
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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    And private equity sales…
     
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  3. Aug 17, 2022 at 3:08 AM
    #9003
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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    FIFY :D.
     
  4. Aug 17, 2022 at 3:27 AM
    #9004
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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    156B5CAE-46E7-4122-B9DB-C6B2464BDB84.jpg

    It feels like 2017!
     
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  5. Aug 17, 2022 at 4:48 AM
    #9005
    My Name is Rahl

    My Name is Rahl Well-Known Member

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    bUt ThE rUsSiAnS uSeD a PeNcIL!!! :duh:
    I still don't think Boeing would have done anything had they been given cancelled, half-finished rocket engines. NASA like to share the pie, so they would have given those plans to Rocketdyne.
     
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  6. Aug 17, 2022 at 5:58 AM
    #9006
    Scott B.

    Scott B. Well-Known Member

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    Never said they were. What I was talking about occurred over 20 years ago.

    As I mentioned earlier, the RS-25s underwent a (minor?) redesign for the SLS.

    So, the SLS engines are not exactly the same as the Shuttle ones.
     
  7. Aug 17, 2022 at 9:28 AM
    #9007
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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  8. Aug 17, 2022 at 9:29 AM
    #9008
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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  9. Aug 17, 2022 at 9:33 AM
    #9009
    bagleboy

    bagleboy Well-Known Member

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    I think this is the main culprit in nasa inefficiency. It built a far flung space industry but not without consequences. Spacex is literally building both the rockets and the buildings to work in from the ground up but they aren’t hamstrung by having critical components under someone else’s design/fabrication so issues that come up don’t have the contractual finger pointing of things like stuck control valves(still unresolved w/starliner). I’m sure there are other problems but at least not that one. Add to that Boeing used to be a company dominated by its engineers and a culture of safety but now it’s irrevocably controlled by its bean counters. Counting beans isn’t a crime but it lacks the vision to anticipate or take calculated risks for long term results, only short term quarterlies.
     
  10. Aug 17, 2022 at 4:53 PM
    #9010
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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  11. Aug 17, 2022 at 4:55 PM
    #9011
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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  12. Aug 17, 2022 at 10:34 PM
    #9012
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
  13. Aug 17, 2022 at 10:45 PM
    #9013
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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  14. Aug 17, 2022 at 10:49 PM
    #9014
    bagleboy

    bagleboy Well-Known Member

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    Snug top Rebel, Thule tracks, ditch tracks, Bagged rear suspension, F/R anytime camera, intermittent wiper switch...
    The likelyhood of anyone else producing a lander first is low but it would be a good thing. Chances are more than one kind of vehicle will be needed whether it’s resupply or crew exchange. In any case we’ll need the heavy lift capacity of starship or something similarly reusable to be able to keep the project funded. Edit- I’ve lately been wondering myself about the status of HLS and who’s even working on it. Given the laundry list of issues already anticipated it would be nice to hear something more.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
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  15. Aug 17, 2022 at 11:09 PM
    #9015
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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    My guess is that if Starship becomes operational at anywhere close to the numbers Musk has thrown out there, then it’s gonna all be Starship in 10 years.

    There’s nothing close to it currently under development.

    SLS is fiscally unsustainable.

    The other competitors, while able to mount lawsuits and political pressure campaigns, are already a decade or more behind. Just consider the iteration of the Raptor engine and production plans. Look at how ‘traditional’ development of the Dreamchaser has gone. The reasons to use methane as a rocket fuel.

    I just hope SpaceX can get it going before Musk explodes physically or psychologically.
     
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  16. Aug 17, 2022 at 11:20 PM
    #9016
    bagleboy

    bagleboy Well-Known Member

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    But what they started with were at least functional and had flown missions. The SRB’s have been upgraded as well, a necessity given the increased payload, but they too were a known, functional quantity. Spacex also has to build its own VAB, launch mount, etc. basically all of the infrastructure that SLS had ready and waiting. It only takes so long because running a NASA project must be like organizing a marching band made up of headless chickens.
     
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  17. Aug 17, 2022 at 11:47 PM
    #9017
    bagleboy

    bagleboy Well-Known Member

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    Agreed but I’m a firm believer in the notion that we are only limited by our imagination. Elon is showing everyone what can be done so it won’t be long before others follow or imagine new solutions. Let’s not forget that some of the many failed ideas of the past decades only failed because our materials development was behind the need. Some of those may yet pan out as well. One thing that keeps coming back to me is how much fuel is spent accelerating fuel, we need to think of a better way to traverse the first stage(or at least some of it). One where more of the energy used to accelerate isn’t also part of the load. The ultimate reusable item is one that never leaves. Spin Launch uses this approach but 10,000g’s is a non starter for most payloads.
     
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  18. Aug 18, 2022 at 3:28 AM
    #9018
    Hunterdc1

    Hunterdc1 1st shift Waste Control stupidvisor

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  19. Aug 18, 2022 at 4:24 AM
    #9019
    Pixeltim

    Pixeltim Misunderstood member

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  20. Aug 18, 2022 at 5:10 AM
    #9020
    PzTank

    PzTank Stuck in the Well

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    So they don’t forget where they put it :notsure:
     
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