RCLT HD 2.75" - Travel Numbers and Notes

Swing by my shop, I'm about 15 minutes above the border in BC. We exclusively work on offroad Toyotas .

I've been asked by many customers about this kit, and have followed it from page one on TW, but haven't seen one in person. I would love to install one myself one of these days.

 

Sub’d for the discussion

 

I’m seeing a lot of body trimming in the pics you provided. Even the photo of Nate’s truck has the entire pinch weld smashed and sealed. Either your limiting up travel or stuff is getting cut or smashed.

 

He's talking semantics. Smashing flat a pinch weld isn't cutting or trimming.

 

Trim cab mount: $200
Cut everything but cab mount: $10k+
Believing you can run all the tire with all the travel with none of the effort: Priceless

 

also, the first truck, Nate from Dirt Lifestyle, did cut the front inner wheel well. it was in one of his videos.

you can see in the below video, how much he cut out the front to get his 38s to fit.

https://youtu.be/P_8Ki9JOycM?list=PLJ145dFO35mE9_ph2NU0h36b0j3Xj4Zjo&t=254

 

Just checked out your website and you guys look to have a nice outfit up there! I will not forget this and will swing by for sure. I am planning (have been planning since 2018....and then Covid) to stay a night at a long-time customer and family friend's house in Chilliwack, so I'll just swing by near Langley to say hello. If I make it this time, it'll be sometime February through April.

Would you guys mind if we added you to our list of "Available Installers"? These are shops interested in taking on a job to install RCLT HD but have not performed an install yet. (Map view)

Yup

Yup

Hi ya WarFab! Here is what we list on our website: "Ability to run up to size 38" tires without body mount frame bracket modification". Note this is only regarding the frame, not the body, fender, or bumper as it's best to stay out of the body trimming gray area altogether.

That said, I do hesitate to respond to comments like, "oh I see some trimming", for example...

...because these are images of rigs on 37s who had to trim for such things as an aftermarket plate bumper which is not part of an RCLT HD install. Nevertheless, on a FJ Cruiser this part of the fender comes with more clearance from Toyota making it possible to run up to 38" tires without trimming. Reference: I got to see this FJ C install and the front cab mount area of the body did not have to be trimmed even to fit 40s (but this was done with hydro bumps so other areas were trimmed):



Regardless, for the product page, it's best to state what is true across all applications: The frame mounts. This way when someone looking to install 37s discovers she didn't have to trim parts, it will be a pleasant surprise rather than someone being under the impression that nothing has to be trimmed only to find they had to trim a 1/4" here and a 1/4" there. It just pains me that people are not recognizing how much easier by a long shot it is to not only fit but also to reliably operate oversized tires now, and this leads me to emphasize and be overzealous with what is being achieved. I have toned down my language a lot since becoming a member here.


Hello @Maxx, nice to meet you. I know you are being sarcastic, but just in case a reader does not get your jokes, I'd like to respond:

When I upgraded my stock Tacoma to 285/70R17 tires, I had to trim my cab frame mounts. This was for a 32.7" diameter tire.

With RCLT HD, 38" tires fit without trimming cab frame mounts.

Today I run 40s and my original unmodified Toyota cab mounts are still in their factory mount location, including both original mounting bolts to the frame. I only had to trim about an inch from the cab frame mount to fit 40x13.5" tires. If I needed to replace a cab mount, I can pick one up from a dealership and bolt it in unmodified. I can turn a full 32° in both directions with the tires fully stuffed and they clear both factory cab mounts installed in their original factory location. This wasn't even a wetdream to the IFS community prior to RCLT HD.



For the reader, RCLT HD repositions both knuckles forward two inches from stock, rendering a tire diameter advantage of four inches. So if you've already trimmed your cab mounts for 35" tires now, then by installing RCLT HD you will clear 39s without any additional cab mount trimming.

As shown, with up to size 38" tire it is up to the user as to how much he or she wishes to cut. For other LT kits, math says this only applies with up to size 34" tires.

Least we forget stock tie rods, knuckles, and steering racks are not rated for 34" tires whereas RCLT HD and it's integrated HD steering are sufficient for 40s.

No one has ever claimed such a statement

Ayyeeeee! I DID forget about this!! Thank you for posting. Well then I am dang glad I amended my post to ditch the zero trimming part

Regards,
BigMike

 

Following for learning purposes, and damn. Facts being thrown left and right. This is what I was looking for. Day dreaming for one of those kits. Keep on crawling’!

 

There is a lot to unpack here so let me break it down little by little:

Yes - This was installed by my shop on my customer's truck. GD Motorsports - you can message me here or DM me on Instagram, and I am happy to talk to anyone about it. Instagram: kyle_GDMotorsports https://www.instagram.com/kyle_gdmotorsports/

Let's start with the "glaring issue of bump stop". As you pictured above, a small bump stop is provided because of the "inverted" lower control arm. The design of the control arm does shorten the distance between the bump stop and the LCA - therefore I do understand why you include this bump stop. Because I was installing this on a customer's truck and I have to stand by my work and reputation - I was not and am not comfortable installing a 0.75" bump stop on a customer's vehicle. I will not do it for a couple reasons: 1) you said above that the bump stop is known to compress down to 0.25". This means there is 0.50" of poly between your truck bottoming out confroably and blowing past the bump stop and pushing the mount into an already thin-walled frame. 2) the bump stop is moved further inboard towards the frame, thus resulting in greater mechanical force being transferred into the frame to catch the truck. This does at the same time reduce the leverage point as it is closer to the frame. so this point is probably a net wash. more load+less leverage being closer to the frame = net wash.

Now the final decision not to use the provided tiny bump stop was true because of my concern about the frame buckling because of the lack of damping. Instead, I cut the bump stop mount off and replaced it with energy suspension universal bump stops. In doing so, I was able to add 3/16" frame platting to help spread the load to prevent the frame from buckling. Now - if you use this kit strictly for slow pace crawling, this provided small bump stop would probably never give you issues. However, as the installer, I feel a responsibility to make sure I install it to the best of my knowledge that reduces every risk I can of the customer damaging his truck. I also believe that if you are spending money on long travel - we all will push the truck hard and fast at one point or another.

Travel Numbers: "I get 10.98" of travel [11.875 + (0.25 - 0) * (8.75 - 11.875) / (0.875 - 0) = 10.982..."

I don't follow your math and nor do I care to. two things changed: compressed bump-stop height and the location of the bump stop. So the only way to properly give a true hub travel number would be to install it and cycle it. I should have done this step but did not. I also do not care about this number because I really feel that the small bump stop provided in the kit is a huge liability. I will never ever recommend someone use it - EVER. Stick with the OEM style bump stop if you choose not to cut your bump stop mounts off. Therefore 8.75" of safe travel.

As I am sure everyone who has read my rant on the bump stops this far has asked the question, "why did you not put hydro bump stops on the truck?". I did not do this for two reasons. 1) they are terribly loud when they are engaged, and for anyone recreational off-roading, this is an irritation. 2) because of the inherent flaws with bump stops on the lower control arms is the fact that they would be engaged for almost 4-5" of wheel up travel. This is pretty close to 40% of the total wheel travel available. Not ideal. The ideal solution is to do an engine cage with a bump stop off the upper control arm/splindle. This kit would be a perfect candidate - this it just comes with a healthy price tag. After the customer had already spent a grundle of money on the kit plus labor to install, spending another stack of cash for this was not high on the list of priorities and understandably so.

As for your explanation for the reason behind the TRE angle - I do not agree with this. There was uptravel left on the table for the product that is currently available. Instead you alluded that you designed it this way for a product that is still in development. Which to me means, it may or may not ever come to the market. So I still stand by my statement of wishing it was designed around working CV angles from Bump to strap. Meaning that there is travel left on the table. This now segments into the next topic:

Tire Size: this customer ended up with a BFG 37x12.5R17. Which we all know run smaller than other 37" tires. That being said, I still had to cut and modify the JD Fab inner fenders behind the headlight. With the current TRE angle hitting bind, there is less up travel than other kits. This does make fitting larger tires easier because the tire does not travel up into the inner fender nearly as much as other options on the market. ALSO MEANS This kit limits travel to clear large tires. This point has been argued time and time again. But the fact is, if you have cut less sheet metal then the kit inherently has less up travel. Plain and simple. I am not going to argue this point anymore. I have put 37s on MANY Toyotas at this point, and I know how much it takes to cut sheet metal out of the way to clear the tire without rubbing while using all the travel you can. There is no reason to limit performance because you don't want to cut sheet metal - that is just my opinion and they way I set up customers' trucks. They have spent all this money on good suspension to gain all the travel possible, then turning around and putting bump stop spacers is just idiotic to me. Or spending an ass ton of money on a long travel kit that has poor TRE angles because you have an idea for a product that may or may not ever hit the market. I don't understand this reason. This kit should cycle and performance was left on the table.

As for you talking about drooping the tire out more - well it just cannot be done because you are already at CV bind on the droop so regardless - your statement of "So while having a lot of flex is nice, if your caster, camber, and toe goes wonky each time you drop or stuff a tire beyond what Toyota intended..." is completely irrelevant. So I'm not even sure what you mean by a product that could come on the market to use the rest of the current TRE angle... unless you drop the diff lower to achieve more droop. Now, this is all turning into speculation so I will stop here with it.

My original post was simply to put the numbers and not be biased one way or the other. after this response, I think my opinions are a little more known now. The build quality is top notch. the strength is unmatched and there are many, many positive things to stay about this kit. I'll leave it up to everyone else to make their own decision if they feel that the price tag is worth it compared to other kits on the market.

 

Good morning (when I began typing ), thanks for the discussion. Criticism is deserved and noted. I have spoken to many customers who upgraded from 285s to 37s without any additional trimming, which is why I am quick to say things that prior to RCLT HD was not possible. But the thread is correct that if someone adds RCLT HD to a stock vehicle, reuses stock coil overs, etc, and proceeds to install 37s, then yes sheet metal and plastic trimming will be required ... but not any frame metal. Therefore, the claims on our website are 100% accurate.

I do get us in hot water by things I've said online, bite my tongue often, and have reduced my forum activity so I do take the criticism to heart. I used to say how this product was the World's First at this, and the World's First at that, and while I trust the US Patent & Trademark Office's 2-year world-wide investigation to validate the statement, this upset people so I removed it from our website.

For the past 1½ to 2 years, our website has claimed the following:

The goals of the all-new Marlin Crawler Long Travel IFS:

1. To install 35" tires without cab mount frame bracket modification
2. To improve approach angle closer to or on par with Solid Axle Conversions
3. To take full advantage of the Heavy Duty MarRack Steering System
4. To carve a new path away from existing Long Travel kits not designed for Rock Crawling

​

and,

How Marlin Crawler accomplished this:

1. By moving the knuckle forward for tire clearance & approach angles never done before
2. By increasing ground clearance of the traditional lower control arm design to a level never done before
3. By having the strongest factory-style steering system integrated with the IFS in a way never done before

​

Since I am embellishing and reminiscing my 3 years of developmental labor, if I may pardon the thread so we may all know what RCLT HD is about...

Main features include...

1. Relocate front axle so far forward it requires a new complete heavy-duty steering system,
2. Unmatched IFS steering strength,
3. Unmatched IFS knuckle strength,
4. Unmatched IFS geometry stability,
5. Unmatched IFS approach angle,
6. Unmatched IFS ground clearance,
7. Oversized bushings to absorb hits & loads,
8. Flex equal to wider LT kits yet without requiring fiberglass fenders,
9. Ability to run up to size 38" tires without body mount frame bracket modification, and
10. It is the first IFS system that challenges the benefits of a Solid Axle Swap

For these reasons, RCLT HD avoids competing with existing Long Travel kits and is why RCLT HD is proudly Patented!​

And for the few in this thread confused how RCLT HD compares to a SAS (which, BTW, no other LT manufacture dares mention on their product page),

While RCLT HD was never meant to replace a Solid Axle Swap, it greatly challenges the benefits thereof in the following ways:

• RCLT HD has vastly more ground clearance and less unsprung mass than an SAS
• Is 99% bolt-on and easily transferable from vehicle to vehicle
• May be removed and all original IFS components reinstalled
• Retains all factory ABS, cruise, and traction control systems
• Reuses OEM brakes and hub components for ease of service
• Can be aligned by any shop without special instructions
• Retains superior handling, ride quality, & stability for daily-drivers
• Is far less expensive and complicated to install

​

This is all copy & paste from our website (including emphasis), and despite people claiming smoke and mirrors and snake oil sales pitches, these are real achievements of RCLT HD. Further, we now know that up to size 38" tire fits without cab mount frame bracket modification, so the end product exceeded one of our project goals.

Next year will mark 40 years of off-roading so I've been around the block and have sufficiently thick skin, but I often get the feeling that as a new comer to the IFS industry people are offended and quick to doubt the abilities of RCLT HD because of how revolutionary it is.

I originally planned to SAS my Tacoma and had no desire to get into the IFS industry. After all, Marlin created the rock crawling industry, which has nothing to do with "fast camping" Long Travel. But there was nothing on the market that allowed me to take my Tacoma to the trails I've enjoyed solid axle rigs on and I saw an opening. On page one of my build thread I said I would wait a year before SAS'ing my Taco, but a year later and before RCLT HD, I wrote this (source, emphasis added):

Suspension:
Since day one everyone has been asking me when am I going to Solid Axle Swap the Tacoma, and while my comment on P1 said at least not for the first year, my answer since earlier this year is now never. Here is why: Anyone can SAS a Tacoma and go run X Y and Z trail and make it look easy & sexy. But what I am going to do is run the same X Y and Z trail while retaining IFS while on crazy huge tires to prove that with the incredible control and safety of the Marlin Crawler, a Tacoma doesn't have to have a SAS in order to hit some very challenging trails. I see a market here that no one is exploiting in this industry. Everyone I've shared Stage 2 with thinks I am out of my mind and I LOVE it. This is what will drive us to push the industry forward & make some awesome improvements to the IFS system to prove that IFS + our TacoBox can take you anywhere!
​

My intent from the onset was to offer something new and different to fill a need. As someone who has been part of founding an industry and has seen brash newcomers come and go, being able to enter an industry in an unobtrusive manner without stepping on the toes of existing vendors made this a no-brainer business decision.

In this thread people are comparing JD Fab, Dirt King, BTF, Camburg, and Baja Kits to RCLT HD, but all of these are light-duty kits designed for off-roading with only up to 285 tires due to insufficient steering strength among many other things, and don't come anywhere close to competing with RCLT HD's 40" tire rating and 1-ton steering and double-sheer ball joint components, let alone all the world's first features it brings to the table.

One look at the price tag tells you RCLT HD is a different animal in a league its own. I am certain RCLT HD has had zero impact to Total-Chaos' sales because these products are meant for different audiences. (Shout-out to TC, great company, great products, many of their employees are our customers.) Entering the market via this "untraveled path" steers clear of competing with other companies and made it possible to off-road and even rock crawl Toyota-based IFS without needing to carry spare parts.

We could have done what other manufactures do and steal from each other as the IFS market is littered with copycats. But on principle we went waaaaaay out of the way to develop the most retardly complicated Toyota IFS kit by a long margin (nearly 250 parts and have you seen our asinine 53 page installer for Pete's sake) which makes marketing tricky and far more difficult to accomplish than all other brands.

RCLT HD is a royal PITA to manufacture and as discussions like this prove, has much higher marketing costs. This is why I once referred to it as the Ferrari Enzo of LT kits because we literally started from scratch and produced the most feature filled advanced Toyota LT kit of all time which has changed the perception so much that we now squabble over what to trim to fit 38" tires. It's like, bro, other LT manufactures CAN'T EVEN FATHOM 38s when they are designed around tie rod diameters smaller than my pinky finger, toothpick knuckles, tiny single sheer ball joints, and light duty steering racks with light duty frame mounts.

Just look at these comments from this short thread that our marketing has yet to educate...

"but with the total cost of this kit, and the travel numbers, why wouldn’t someone just go SAS? You would honestly probably still save some cash." — BlessdApparel1 (reply 12)

"Feel like my Camburg LT setup is still competitive after that write up." — dib (reply 15)

"Only 8.75" of travel is crazy for the price of the kit" — desertjunkie760 (reply 18)

"you're going to have very limited travel with this kit if you're not willing to severely cut the inner fenders, firewall, etc in order to gain all of the usable up travel." — desertjunkie760 (reply 18)

"you'd be stuck with 8.75" of wheel travel and you bought the wrong kit" — desertjunkie760 (reply 22)

"Wrong kit either way for something that claims to be the only IFS designed for rock crawling and the “first IFS to challenge the benefits of a solid axle” haha" — Dayman Karate (reply 23)

"Basically my “stock” front end (albeit fully tubbed) has pretty much the same wheel travel as this highly priced kit?" — OldOrchardHardwood (reply 34)

"I think your setup right now would be fine if you add 40+ inch tires" — Brian422 (reply 37)

"Oh yeah this set up on 37s will last me for a while." — Dayman Karate (reply 38)​

Every reply above is incorrect. This is what I mean by biting my tongue. Obviously we don't need to pick apart everything armchair fabricators post to the interweb, and further the benefits of RCLT HD is simply not needed by everyone, anyhow. This is why RCLT HD is a niche market kit that had never been done before.

But it is blindingly evident that despite how bold and outlandish some people think our marketing gets, facts are not getting to TacomaWorld members and I believe it's because RCLT HD has changed the status quo so far outside ordinary LT setups that people don't even want to consider the meaning of things like, "RCLT HD is the first LT kit with a geometrically integrated oversized steering rack". (Source: FAQ)

At the end of the day, RCLT HD sells itself. The order flow keeps us fully busy. We process hundreds of other orders every day. I have new IFS products waiting to get to market. I rarely visit forums other than for announcements. But when I noticed this thread has misleading information about one of our products, I absolutely needed to chime in.

Hello Tacoma1192, thank you for the opportunity to set the thread straight together

Thank you for the info, got ya added to our Google Map! As mentioned we definitely like your work and its great to have another quality shop on our list. Found the build on your IG, will recommend PNW customers your way

Would love connecting with your customer for a couple pictures of the vehicle for our Media page, as well as ensuring he or she has access to our 1-on-1 RCLT HD Owners Club.

I only just met you and I'm sure you mean well for your customers, but I find these comments perplexing because on your IG page is a pretty green TRD Pro that passed through your shop where the photo descriptions imply you installed 37" tires onto a LT kit that is only rated for 35" tires per the manufacture. Moreover, the vehicle appears to have original inner tie rods which are known to buckle with 285s (smaller than 33"). To increase liability, you installed a Supercharger.....to a truck with 37s and what appears to be factory steering (I hope I am wrong).

And worse, what looks to be your own rig, a red 2nd gen four-door, appears on your IG multiple times with hash tags implying it is on 39" tires despite running a suspension kit recommended for only 33" tires. Practice what you preach, Kyle.

Why risk actual vehicle operation and occupant safety on one of your clients, and then discredit the most bullet-proof IFS + HD Steering setup on the market because of your opinion of an unrelated component? This is a rather unfair assessment, wouldn't you agree?

You don't have to blame Toyota or their frame. In fact, on some applications the frame is double-walled and inner gusseted in the regions of the shock towers, engine mounts, and bump stop brackets. I do, however, agree with you: I don't run the factory bump stop frame brackets myself. But installing factory bump stops does not reinforce frame rails, and is not part of RCLT HD anyhow. Where does it end? You could install a bump stop drop spacer with factory bump stop and show how RCLT HD only makes 2-inches of up-travel, but again, this would be a lie and you know it.

What you have done is disingenuous, misleading, and not an accurate review of my product.

I'm not suggesting you alter your opinion on what you feel is safe as that's between you and your clients, but what you could have done is provide the factual travel measurement as the product is designed for per the instructions, which we calculate to be 10.98", and then add your own take on how you feel our provided bump stops are not a good option in your opinion and for your clients you would limit the travel against manufacture specifications down to 8.75".

That would be an honest review and I would up vote your post and move on with my day.

I don't hold this against you as you skipped over this section in our Install Guide, but the bump stop is NOT moved inboard, it is moved rearward lateral to the frame which as you now realize does not result in larger forces to the frame.

Thank you Sir, couldn't agree more

Wow. Well, this is quite important to me and my customers so I care a great deal.

As mentioned, I interpolated the data (Wikipedia:Interpolation). I used linear interpolation to keep the math simple because the height differences of the two bump stops being compared are close enough to assume linear motion at the bump stop frame bracket.

Here is a chart for visual reference.
X-axis = Bump Stop Height
Y-axis = Suspension Travel Amount

It would have been great had you actually followed our instructions to provide an accurate assessment of my product.

You are an installer and have the prerogative to install the kit as you see fit. For example you could try swapping the driver side UCA with the passenger's.

But you do not have the prerogative to choose what parts of our instructions you wish to omit and then use the incorrect installation results as representative of our product which may mislead the public.

I feel I've been cordial towards you and still recommend you as an installer as your work looks clean. I also have an affinity towards people from Boise. But I am the Mechanical Engineer who designed this product. I help in overseeing the manufacturing of this product. And as someone with 28 yrs automotive part design experience, 39 yrs off-roading experience, and the heir to the Rock Crawling industry, I stand without reservation behind the design, quality, and performance of this product when it is installed as per our highly detailed and dare I say best-in-the-industry instructions.

Thanks to your well presented measurements, we now know that 11-inches is the amount of travel in the "Easy Solution" limited up-travel configuration that I deem safe for 100% of our customers, including yours.

Yup, that is no problem and as mentioned should be easy to fix by providing additional clearance to the misalignment spacers.

Yeah, this is fine. If you use all available travel for any setup, then it will require a lot of trimming for 37s. People don't need to install "MANY" LT kits to realize this. Hopefully, if you posted to the New Members forum, most would know this without having any LT experience.

You're welcome to your opinion and I agree with it. But there are many people who don't want to cut up their vehicles who intentionally limit up travel. In fact, there are many lift kits on the market that limit travel, from drop bracket kits to LT setups reusing factory Toyota knuckles' vertical ball joint orientation.

Thank you!! Now you're getting it You might prefer nearly 2" tall factory bump stops that limit the suspension travel of RCLT HD, but we do not instruct anyone to do this.

Point duly noted, and I would respectfully ask that you back off a hair as this is my first-ever IFS creation which just so happens to accomplish more than any kit on the market prior to it. I have my reasons for my designs and as I said yesterday I will improve it. Please understand that in manufacturing compromises exist and these knuckles are used on both our +2.75" and +3.50" kits. I will address the issue without altering my knuckle design so as to not limit potential performance from +3.50" customers. Win-win.

@WarFab Armor: You see, this is what I'm talking about. Tacoma1192 has no clue about some features that make our kit outstanding. He is an installer and not an online shopper, so I shouldn't hold it against him, but reasons like this is why I feel there is an unfinished job in marketing RCLT HD. Tacoma1192 doesn't know what he installed so how can we expect him, who has held RCLT HD in his hands, to know how to recommend it to future customers?

RCLT HD is a stupidly complicated product. Look how ridiculously long our product page is with its many tabs of info, compared to Camburg for example: Ours vs Theirs. They only have ONE PARAGRAPH! Ohhhhhhhhhhhh I envy how easy it must be to pedal boring, featureless products. Some day we'll make a simple UCA kit and will get to taste the easy life.


Tacoma1192 and others, please read carefully: The UCA mount at the shock tower of Type III and IV frames (frame reference chart) has a 14.5° slope angle downward towards the center of the vehicle. As the UCA is pulled down by the knuckle, this slope draws the upper ball joint forward creating a reduction in caster. This is why it's harder to maintain caster the more you lift the vehicle. Now when the caster reduces, this causes the camber to decrease. And as the camber decreases, the toe goes out. This is why you see excessive toe-out in photos of bottomed-out trucks landing from jumps.

The problem with lifting a Toyota IFS while reusing factory knuckles is that no matter how you design the UCA, it will always have a greater downward angle than stock. This greater angle accelerates the horizontal distance change between the upper ball joint and the UCA frame pivot as the suspension cycles, thereby creating a faster change rate (unstable handling, reduced driving feel and feedback, etc) and wider range of change (accelerated component wear including tires) in caster, camber, and toe throughout suspension travel.

Therefore, and here is the stinger: Any Long Travel kit that reuses factory knuckles at a ride height greater than factory, has less stable suspension geometry, period. This is the wonky suspension characteristic I am talking about that gets progressively worse the higher and higher you set static lift height above stock.

So what is the solution? You need new knuckles with geometry designed for a lift. But guess what, replacement knuckles are freak'n expensive to manufacture. RCLT HD has new geometry that returns the UCA nearly back to the factory slope angle when running 3-inches of lift, depending on application (short wheel base SUV vs long wheel base pickups have different factory caster angles so I split the difference).

But it gets worse: Because the MarRack is 1) positioned more forward in the frame, 2) positioned higher in the frame, and 3) is a wider rack incompatible with our narrow mid-size frames, I also had to incorporate new steering geometry in accordance with the new position of the rack, new sweep angles of the inner tie rod ball joint, larger rack gear ratio, and longer motion range of the rack.

This is why all LT kits on the market are INCOMPATIBLE with a MarRack, and why we cannot offer it as a simple rack upgrade kit. If this was so easy then I would have patented THAT instead of the complications and headaches and delays and high legal fees associated with patenting an entire replacement IFS + integrated entire replacement steering system.

As a result of it's all-new integrated suspension and steering geometry properly designed for a lift higher than stock, RCLT HD only gains or loses ½° toe per side throughout it's full range of travel which is remarkably stable and results in an exceptional driving experience. No other LT in the World () has all these features combined in one kit.

This is an older photo of my rig using it's two-way forced articulation system to demonstrate our stable geometry. I don't remember exactly, but this is something like 90% max lift and about 80% max bump.

Please understand that I truly appreciate this post. It is great advertising for RCLT HD and you did this on your own accord. This is why I thanked you first right at the top of this page.

While your reduced measurement of travel might be considered unbiased to you, it is actually beyond biased as it is outright false. I feel I have communicated your error sufficiently and am not one to report threads or beg someone on the internet to change their post. We have our own website and have listed the updated & correct measurement, and as mentioned yesterday credited you on our website for helping figure this out

Really looking forward to this. I wished I could have made Best Of The West, looking forward to that next year too

Gentlemen, from my heart, thank you.

Regards,
BigMike

 

If the kit speaks for itself, why do you feel the need to give the lengthy used car salesman speech on here and your website? World’s first, patented, unmatched etc. are my trigger words for a product that oversells and underdelivers. Maybe your target audience is people just smart enough to do the install, but not smart enough to find any issues.

“Heir to the rock crawling industry” no one should care. I am the fifth generation owner of my company and no one gives a shit about what my (literally) great great grandfather did. They want to know how they’re going to be taken care of today. He did however get his start selling water from a wagon in the 1800’s so maybe y’all shared a bit of the same marketing pitches.

kit looks great. The lower arm clearance had me locked in when I was in the market for LT, but the marketing blew it for me. I just can’t get past it. I bet version 2 or 3 will be incredible if you put aside the ego and focus on the product not the marketing. We will see.

 

Properly put together answer with facts and engineering data. At the end of the day some dudes will still fight you to defend that planet earth is flat and so on. Keep up the good work Mike!

 

Hello Dayman Karate, nice to meet you. I wasn't going to reply, but I'd like to learn from your experience.

Appreciate the question and your feedback. To answer, as demonstrated by the nonsensical replies in this thread, some readers do not (1) know what RCLT HD is and (2) do not know what RCLT HD does. Your reply on page 2 indicates you also do not understand what aspects of our design is beneficial for rock crawling as well as what benefits of our design challenges the status quo of a solid axle swap.

Moreover, the opening post of this thread does not mention (1) what RCLT HD is nor provide a link to our website so readers may see (2) what RCLT HD does. OP assumed people knew these things but was proven wrong by the replies.

As a result of some readers not knowing what the product being discussed even is, so much so that one member believes his factory IFS & factory steering is comparable to RCLT HD, I hope you'd agree that providing a summary of what the product (1) is and (2) does was justified.

Nevertheless, I agree that this is not my thread to upsell, so I was courteous with my demeanor when I politely asked "if I may pardon the thread so we may all know what RCLT HD is about". This was the first introduction to the thread of the product in question.... 56 days later on page 4.

As an aside, I haven't had to post a response like this since Feb, and prior to that, Feb 2021. I hope you'd agree that three visits in 2 years is not being a pushy car salesman and demonstrates how the product speaks for itself.

I've been thinking about this comment for a bit. The product is very complicated and advanced compared to everything else on the market. This thread gives credence to it being too complicated and too advanced for TacomaWorld.com members. RCLT HD created a niche market that not everyone needs. I'm certain other LT companies lurking by see how much of a hassle a revolutionary product is to advertise and laugh all the way to their banks.

To understand who our target audience is, all you have to do is visit the product page and read the 4th paragraph:

What this means for you:
✓ The Ultimate Reliable HD IFS + Integrated HD Steering System Upgrade
✓ Maximum confidence for your Rock Crawling, Expedition, Overlanding, and Daily Driving needs
✓ Increased steering power to safely operate oversized tires
✓ All-new steering geometry properly designed for a lift (5" capable, 3-4" recommended)
✓ No need to trim, relocate, or chop body mounts (verified with up to 38" tires)
✓ No more broken inner or outer tie rods
✓ No more broken steering racks
✓ No more broken or bent knuckles
✓ No more broken axles (using Ultimate Build)​

That's it. That's the target audience. It's people who are tired of unreliable light-duty IFS & light-duty steering and want to more easily install and safely operate larger than stock tires. Very simple to understand.

Yet, as shown on the previous pages, despite what is considered as overly-aggressive marketing on my part, none of this has reached some members in just this thread alone. Do I desire to market RCLT HD more? Hell yes. But unfortunately I am too busy working on new products.

10-4, definitely agree, however, my response was directed to Tacoma1192 who made himself obligated to care by questioning my competence. I am a humble guy and this is by far the most firm I've ever stated my position as an authoritative expert in off-road product design because this is the first time I have seen someone recommend incorrect installation of our product, publish flawed results as de facto, and proceed to recommend our customers not follow our instructions.

Any manufacture who cares about their customers safety would respond in like earnest or just have the thread pulled for legal reasons. But I respect Tacoma1192's time and effort in creating this thread, and I love standing up for our products. Most importantly, threads like this keep us on our toes and help make our products better. It has been enjoyable visiting the forum again and setting facts straight. TW is a good community and we are all fortunate to have this communication avenue between end-users and company presidents.

Overall thank you very much for the reply. I'm going to shoot ya a PM later today to better understand what aspect of our marketing was off-putting to you so we may improve going forward.

Regards,
BigMike

 

@BigMike contrary to your belief, a lot of us here do understand how suspension works. Some of us even have experience with suspension outside of the “Tacoma World”. You keep gas lighting us and saying we don’t understand but we actually do. Maybe you believe that if you repeatedly copy and paste your sales brochure info here, we are all suddenly going go “Oh I get it now” but that’s simply not reality. We understand you put a lot of time, money, energy and effort into this project but you seem to be willing to defend it at all costs. Perhaps because you have so much invested in it personally, you are unable to see the community’s point-of-view and data. I know you’re probably going to reply back with some long complex argument but maybe just take a breath before you do and ponder to yourself, “Maybe I’m wrong”.

Maybe I’m wrong too but I don’t think I’m the only one who is seeing this play out this way.

 

I share these thoughts, as well. @BigMike Like most of the internet, I’m guilty of nitpicking the bejesus out of stuff. It’s not fun being under the microscope and I’m glad you’re still playing along.

It’s rare to get feedback on why you lost a sale and it’s probably the most helpful feedback you can get. I was ready to pull the trigger on your kit or another. I went with the other over yours for basically two reasons. The wording you used to describe your kit rubbed me wrong. I found portions aforementioned in this thread misleading at best. It seemed pretentious and shortsighted that someone’s first go at the IFS world (for rock crawling or not) would be “revolutionary” when folks making kits on here have decades of combined experience building IFS vehicles. I’m clearly not in this category with my limited skill set and ability so when my brain can’t keep up, I have to trust my gut. Catching wind of influencers getting kits before paying customers was the second reason. I have no idea if it’s true or not, but it was damaging nonetheless. I take everything on the internet with a grain of salt.

Again, I think this kit has the potential to push IFS into the future for crawling. Competition is great for us all and I’m excited for the future. That being said, I’ve already chopped off the back half of the truck, so the front half might be next and it won’t be IFS replacing it

 

How is it that you determined that other manufacturers stole from each other and copied each other, but you did not? you talk so highly about a Mar rack, yet its a Toyota part that your claiming is your own. If the mar rack isnt the rack and its the bushings and tie rods associated with it, then you need to phrase it correctly and not steal Toyota's parts. i can change a shock mounting location on your LT kit, but i wouldnt say its my own kit, i would say its a modified Marlin rclt hd kit. so scratch the stupid mar rack sales pitch and call it what it is, a modified lc200 rack. @Basikbiker doesnt call his modified tundra racks his own invention either.
on the same subject of stealing, your design isnt anything special. Yes, you packaged everything very well. but IFS suspension isnt new, your uniball orientation isnt new, fabricated spindles are not new. there are kits out there, including outside the toyota market, that are all custom fabricated and as strong or stronger than your kit. i could say you copied another kits uniball orientation, your double sheer and use of heims on the outer tie rod are not new concepts either.

you've taken many well known suspension designs and made it work well for your intended application. i dont see how this is revolutionary or the worlds first.

You talk about suspension change through the motion of travel here, and how your fine tuned the camber curve of your LT kit. awesome, so you have little to no camber change, how did you calculate your 1.5 inch wheel travel increase simply by bolting on a tire?

 

If you measure at the outside of the tire it moves more. It’s better sounding when the numbers are bigger.

 

Im genuinely curious about how he got his numbers, i really dont see how you add 12% travel by bolting on a wheel, when theres little to no camber change.
I like suspension geometry, ive been doing alot of research on it to understand how things work. Ive had to learn alot about IFS and steering geometry to get my full hydro steering tacoma to drive down the road smoothly at 80mph. I messed up my ackerman while doing my initial install and had to go back and redo everything, now im dialing in bumpsteer.

 

Hey Tommy Boy, why don't you step off the soap box for a minute. Dude seriously consider hiring someone just to put together these posts for you, or have them do all the posting on here as a representative for the company. You clearly have too much emotional attachment to this product because it's your baby, that's fine but don't respond to everyone who says your baby isn't the best. While you may be the "Heir" to a great man I bet he would beat the ever living crap out of you if you read these posts to him. You may be a great guy but the sales pitch and boasting on here does you and the company no good. I feel you would be better served by just biting your tongue and letting these replies continue. Quoting replies you don't like just feeds the fire, seriously let it go. Have your wife, your best friends wife or your secretary at work read these and ask for their honest opinion.

 

@BigMike I remember when you first started the "RCLT" thread, what seems like forever ago. I think a lot of people were excited about something new in the toyota IFS space, and were stoked to see what you came up with. I think people respected that you were race testing your parts, and that you were making a full kit that solved a lot of problems on these trucks. But then when it came time to "release" it, there was a whole lot of marketing hype and "world's first" etc, but no delivery. It was another couple of years before the kit actually became available. I understand that there are always a tonne of delays and things take way longer to develop than you originally think. I also know that Covid hit a lot of supply chains harder than most people understand, especially at the time.

Whether influencers were given product, or had to buy it and wait along with everybody else, the optics of it, while customer who had paid, waiting a very long time, wasn't good.

I think this whole series of events was the most damaging to your reputation, specifically on TW. The tacoma scene has actually changed a lot in that time; the people who modify these trucks in general know a lot more now than they did 5 years ago. Other companies have also come out and released really cool products that haven't been seen before in the Tacoma realm. People like @Basikbiker have been putting out modified Tundra racks (i've installed a few now) for several years, custom spindles have been in public hands for a while, and not just saved for race trucks. 37's have become the norm, while 40's are more and more common. Moving the LCA forward for tire clearance and castor have been achieved in other ways. Most LT kits push the tire forward. Your kit took all of that to the extreme, but it wasn't especially ground breaking. I would say the only really unique design element is the "inverted" arm, for awesome ground clearance, while having a tunnel of sorts for the CV. All the rest is just basic IFS suspension design. Meanwhile there was a bit of "no other company has done this, they all make weak lame products", and I don't think that kind of marketing really works well for anything other than US politics. Especially when a lot of those companies have also built race proven products. Not in the same "rock crawling" niche per se, but still good stuff.

Outside of the TW space, it's obvious that people are stoked on the product, and that it works well. You're obviously a passionate guy about trucks and crawling, etc. I think maybe what would work better on TW, is to treat everybody else as equally passionate people. Show (not tell) what your kit is capable of. Check out some of the other, more interesting builds on here where people are taking their trucks to the next level and actually wheeling them hard. There are several fully hydro steering setups on IFS on here, 40's, Linked rears, cages, etc. Guys just building cool trucks because they are as in to it as you are. Make it less about selling your kit, and more about being a part of the community, and then I believe the sales will come much more naturally.

Less influencer type people that put links in the OE leaf hangers and 10" bump stop spacers, because the TW crowd know that this is BS, and more of the guys that actually use and abuse their shit. I think getting your kit on the Sherpa race runner was a good call for instance. Hearing that the steering on a custom spindle is limiting travel would definitely bum me out if I were to install your kit, and be trying to get the maximum travel out of it, but I would just take it as constructive criticism and move on. Change it, or don't, it's your product after all, but that's all it is. Everything has pros and cons, so being honest about that is key.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts from an outside perspective, having watched since page one. I know that I was personally very interested in your kit, and then I was interested in selling/installing your kit, but I never ended up hearing back from you guys when I emailed. The "over the top" marketing and then the kit taking forever to come out put me off, so I moved on as both a customer and dealer/installer. I did just send you a PM though, if you happen to read this far haha.

I have nothing against you or your company. I really want to see and test your kit for myself one day. I think there just needs to be a bit of a reset, however that might look.

man I don't write novels like this that often on here! ha! Not sure why I even care that much other than that, as a business owner, I find it really interesting. Honestly I learned lots of lessons through all of this from a business standpoint, and I hope we can all take it for what it is, an opportunity to grow.